Anyone know who was climbing at the disciple wall this past Saturday? Someone stole the bottom draw off Beast and left the crag looking as if a bunch of Euro youngsters were there for the day - see pics

Thats not cool!

We were at Boven this past weekend and were disgusted by the mess (ablution wise) that we encountered at the Superbowl, Hallucinogen as well as Breakfast crag. If you have to take a crap, please do it further away from the crag and cover it up!

Unfortunately that is the negative aspect to the growth of sport climbing to which we are going to have to get used to. On the other hand all it takes to deal with the problem is for 1 person at a crag to carry spare plastic bags and disposble gloves.

Who shall this "1 person" be? The chosen one?





(Hi Danny!)

Really bad that. Would it be possible for us to make a sign with the basic rules and place one at the start of the walk-in? No one likes signs but it would help. I dont mind paying for it if someone can arrange it and if Mike approves. Andrew

Hey D

That is SHOCKING!! Surely Jan must know who is camping and staying at the lodge and we could call around to find out if anyone has any idea.

If anyone sees climbers acting like that then I recon they should walk up to them and mace them properly. I am willing to help in this regard. Will provide free cans of it next time I’m there.

Hi Chris - the chosen one is currently in Ceuse where apparently his problems are much bigger than ours. Aside from trying to outclimb Flex for the Macabbi title he'll soon have to rely on his one good knee to help Jono on those walk-ins.

Andrew, I'm not sure if signs will solve the issue. Whoever took the effort to steal the draw and leave so much crap behind knew that what they were doing would not be acceptable to others. It's amazing how after a rock rally weekend all the crags are spotless yet following a weekend with minimum climbers about so much litter is left around. None-the-less I'll speak to Mike about signs when I next see him as they certainly won't make the situation any worse.

Tony, thanks for the words. I actually tried this out the other day when I spotted a dude using my draws on Beast without permission. He was just about ready to steal the first draw again when I got him. Now there are a bunch of American agents running around Boven talking about wanting to cancel a slide show due to "hostile locals"

Danny trash is wrong. Badong even. So is stealing draws.

But 'using your draws without permission'? You left them on the route, if I want to climb it, should I come look for you and ask permission first?

It's up to you whether you choose to ask my permission or not. Just don't act all offended, like that American climber, when I jump out from behind the bushes with a can of Dr Tony's most potent mace.
Going up to the hills now - I suspect some of those youngsters from the SANCF team might be tempted to try some of the routes I left draws on...

Yeah, quick! Get them off your lawn! We all know they have NO RIGHT! Those are YOUR ROUTES, WITH YOUR DRAWS ON!

That's some funny sh1t there. You leave your draws on Beast, Joey does it on your gear, you hop out from behind a bush with a can of mace? Going all "you didn't ask if you can use my draws, take that you criminal!! PSSSSSSST mace in your face BEEETCH"

Really, just klap him with your handbag next time

hahahahahahahahaha HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Gotta watch out for those pro rock climbers hey, they just can't stop stealing your old draws. Especially the ones sponsored by Petzl... they're a thieving bunch, they just don't have any of their own stuff.

PS You just made me spit coffee on my laptop

To make laws like that would be absurd, if you leave your draws on a route and expect no one to remove them the least you can do is be tolerant of people using them on the route. are you proposing that if 3 different parties want to climb the same route as you each bolt would have to have 3 draws?

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If you aren't willing to solve your own problems, how can you expect others to?

While I admit I don't know the context of what's being said above, it does seem a bit ridiculous to leave draws on a route and expect nobody to use them. If you want your draws to be used by you alone, take them down when you're done...

I guess if people don't know the rules I can't expect them not to use my draws. I've already asked Mike to add "No climbing on pre-placed draws without permisssion" to Andrew's proposed sign.

I'm gona ask Justin to add a sign on the forum "No taking the piss Danny, because everybody takes it way to serious"

Ok so I arrange to come to Boven for the weekend, drive all the way from joburg with a specific project in mind, arrive at the crag only to find per-placed draws on the route I was planning on working. So now Im I expected to leave the crag, head back to the camp sight, find out whoes draws are on the route?
O wait the climber they belong to isnt at the camp site... So let me just take a drive to town and find out whos draws they are so I can ask permition to use them.

This all seems a little extreme to me. If you leave draws up and dont allow others to climb on them you are stopping those people from climbing that route as well. What if the climber who placed the draws works the route for a week or a month? Now no one can climb the route for all that time because there are pre placed draws?

In my opinion, what seems fair to me is:

If you see pre-placed draws on a route you would like to climb and the person who placed them is at the crag, you should ask permition to use them because the climber who placed them may just be resting and may intend to get back on the route shortly.

But if the climber is not present at the crag it seems a little un fair to expect other climbers to go searching all over to find the owner of the draws.

As far as stealing draws and littering goes, if I see someone stealing draws or littering ill mace them with my fist

I'm going to remove Danny's litter and send it to Derek. If I can avoid the MACE in MY FACE

umpshee umpshee umpshee umpshee

culling seems like a good prospect. People have always asked me to climb on my draws or I have offered..

To be perfectly fair... When I leave my draws on a route that is not a project, I see them as fair game for others to use (NOT REMOVE). It is irrational to think that one would not use the draws on a route in a public crag, PARTICULARLY a route as AWESOME as the Beast.

I would certainly bash someone over the head if and pepper spray them though if I caught them removing a draw!!! Someone was actually suggesting that we get some free roaming pigs to assist in body disposal for transgressions at the crag

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I hate this real world place... I'd be more than happy to live out there rather...

A sign is not a solution but it will help if its well positioned. Below are some possible rules for the crag, might be of use, but really not up to me.

People will always sh*it at the crag even if you tell them not to so that line is necesary.

Access to this land depends on you….please read and stick to the following rules:

EVERYONE:

1. Do not leave any litter, however small, including cigarette butts, finger tape and tissue paper.

2. A well behaved dog at the crag is fine but poorly trained dogs are a nuisance and are not welcome.

3. Do not mark the rock or scratch names or doodles on the rock or trees. Don’t pick, cut or damage vegetation.

4. If you must do ‘your business’ at the crag, go at least 30 metres down-hill and away from the cliff in the bushes and make sure you dig a hole and cover it with dirt and leaves afterwards. Never near the cliff.

5. Don’t pee close to the cliff as it smells. Do it in the open where it will be rained on.

6. Respect the tranquillity of the area. No music, no unnecessary shouting or noisy children.

7. Please consider others around you if you want to smoke.

8. No fires are allowed outside of the campsite.

CLIMBERS:


9. Please brush chalk-caked holds and tick-marks after you have finished with a route, only tick holds if it is critical and only with a small tick or dot.

10. ‘IP’ written on the rock in chalk or a piece of tape/plastic on the first bolt means the route is ‘In Progress’ and the route is a closed project. Do not try these climbs.

11. Do not remove other people’s quickdraws from a route even if they have been there for a long time. You may of course climb on the route using the draws in place.

And here is another one form this past Saturday. In case it doesn't come out clearly, there is a big "European rose" among all that litter. That sign that we are planning will have to be multi-lingual - I strongly suspect that this momento was from some off shore visitors.

right at the base of a route!!!??? that's incredible. i cannot imagine that anybody would think it is okay to do that

btw, i think we need to be careful not to label this a euro-thing. i have quite a few climbing buds from europe and these guys are all decent and sensitive to the environment. let's not become xenophobic about turds.

Indeed. Nothing like a bit of healthy stereotyping though.

Of course you are right. Bottom line though is that in Europe thousands more climb than in SA and, unless local authorities come up with a plan (portable toilets etc.) many crags can end up looking like a dump - typically in certain countries around the Mediterranean where crag etiquette isn't as developed as in other European countries, or where visitors don't feel as compelled to obey the same norms as they do in their home crags. It has to do with the LCD that Snort goes on about, and which is obviously starting to affect our crags.
Living in Boven I am able to get a rough idea of what goes on locally during the week. If a crag was spotless on Tuesday afternoon and looks like a dump on Thursday, it's natural to conclude (accurately or not) that the gang that you saw walking down/ travelling up to the crags on Wednesday is responsible. Very rarely they turn out to be locals but, in general, are either from Europe or Reunion Island.