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 Post subject: Knots
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 11:34 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 2:21 pm
Posts: 9
Whats the application for an alpine butterfly knot. Coulnt you just use a figure of 8?


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 Post subject: Alpine Butterfly
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 11:52 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005 1:34 pm
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Location: Cape Town
Hi Eric,the Alpine Butterfly is used when you need a loop in the middle of your rope,the rope still runs straight in either direction and would be under much less stress when loaded than if you use a Figure of Eight for the same purpose.

Cheers :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Knots
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:04 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:56 pm
Posts: 43
Location: SA
My understanding is that the conventional wisdom is that the alpine butterfly knot can handle a 3-way load better and will not unroll/slip when only two strands are weighted. It is also easier to untie after being weighted than a figure 8. Apperently the knot also does not reduce the rope strength as much as other middle-of-the-rope knots.

At least that's the theory, in practice the difference might not be very significant, but i'd rather keep with the accepted practice.

http://www.chockstone.org/TechTips/Butterfly.htm


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:45 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 4:11 pm
Posts: 35
From my understanding the alpine butterfly can be used when wanting to walk rope upped. This is used when walking on slippery or crevassed (sp) areas. As Mario said the knot runs horizontaly from the knotting point hence creating less chance of slippage. I think it would also be easier to untie after it has been loaded.


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 Post subject: The Alpine butterfly
PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 11:23 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 11:50 am
Posts: 97
Location: Cape Town
The comments so far are mostly correct.
The alpine butterfly has traditionally been used as a knot to tie in to the rope during protection while moving across a glacier. It is easy to tie, and quick to tie and untie (even after being weighted). In addition, it does not weaken the rope much (maintaining 75% strength - according to 'Layhands'), and takes a three way load very well. It is not bulky, and easy to check if it is tied correctly.

While some knots may be better as directionals when being weighted in one direction (such as inline fig8, or Double Dragon), it has the benefit of versatility in that it can safely be weighted in most directions.

We have many uses for the knot in rescue, not just for tying in. It can also easily be tied as a double loop (or even triple loop, but it's getting a bit bulky here). If you have the end of the rope in hand, you can also tie a butterfly around an object (tree or post), or use it as a bend (join two ends of rope). The latter is a very good way of joining ropes for abseil, as an alternative to the dreaded \"American bend\" (that come-undone type overhand horror).

Learn it, you'll use it.
cheers
Brent


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:09 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:54 pm
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Location: UK
I've never heard it called that, but in UK some people still call it the European Death Knott. However tests have shown that is safe provided you leave a long tail and you only use it ropes the same diameter. If you are unsure then just put a second behind the first.[/b]


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:10 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:54 pm
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Location: UK
Duplicate - Sorry I got an error and did not think it had posted.


Last edited by Duncan_S on Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:10 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:54 pm
Posts: 5
Location: UK
edit


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