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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:13 pm 
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Real Name: Christo Snyman
It's an interesting debate, I also recon regardless of how someone get into trouble that should play no role when it comes to helping/rescuing that person.

My understanding of Jeb (as an outside fan who will never have the balls to do anything even remotely as hardcore) is that he will probably do the right thing to not jeopardize things for the local community. I also think that the potential "negative" publicity is being overstated and someone like himself has a MASSIVE following and the exposure he is getting for table mountain will almost certainly do more good than bad for tourism.

What would be interesting is deciding what fits the definition of someone on a "self Serving mission". To a extend I suppose this is true for Jeb, since he is a heavily sponsored athlete and also someone who pushes the boundaries of the sport. He one of the few at the pinnacle of the sport and as in most things to operate at that level you need sponsors. So does that make him the same as someone like say Adam Ondra, Chris Sharma or many of the boulderers pitching at rocklands each year on sponsor support. Surely their missions are self serving as well because to be sponsored you need to keep pushing limits. In Jeb case unfortunately this means pushing boundaries pretty hard and chances of getting hurt is pretty high and hence the need for being rescued. Do we not need individuals like this in each sport who are pushing the boundaries and creating dreams and projects for the rest of us to follow. What about himalayan mountaineers doing pretty hardcore stuff in very remote places with VERY high chance for things going pearshaped requiring very expensive rescue efforts? anyway I recon his motivation is really a personal need to push himself not make money. Fame might play a role, but then again that an affliction you find with amateurs as well it is easy to impress non-climbers with one "risk taking". Sponsors make it possible but he's never going to become filthy rich, besides there are less dangerous ways of making money. Sponsors are a means to follow your dreams and I think deep down his personal drive is no different from anyone else following their passions (it a general statement I know and some people abuse this support which should also not be condoned).

Do we then also decide that local climbers pushing boundaries for trad/sport/bouldering pretty hard falls in the same self-serving category. It might push the scene locally but often we also pursue these goals for our own individual needs as well (what ever those may be). What about a climber with moderate ability who decides to solo Jacobs Ladder and finds himself in trouble, does that qualify as self serving?

Anyway I'm a person of moderate ability in many sports and probably in no position to make judgement of anyone. Personally I take a lot of inspiration and satisfaction away from people doing remarkable things and for me that is payment enough, but that is just me. He might have a short life (I hope he does not), but even at 35 he has probably done more and lived more than I'm ever likely to do even if I manage a ripe old age of 100+.

Anyway enough of that, Jeb hope you get well soon and recover fully. I look forward to many more awesome jumps and if you are forced to pay for the rescue I will be happy to make a contribution to that fund!


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:27 pm 
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Real Name: Charles Edelstein
Tristan, you are so disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing. Your post is better sent as a PM.

The guy made a mistake, several - period - it broke is his legs. I am sure he did not intend that.

I am very au fait with BASE jumpers and their exploits both in Malls and on TM.

The General himself has made a mistake and is very grateful to one of my very best friends for 'rescuing" him when he also made a mistake BASE jumping of TM and breaking his femur. That same best friend has also made a mistake and cratered BASE jumping (more than once) and in the one incident passed off the injury as a climbing incident so as to not tarnish the image of BASE jumpers.

Neither the General or this other mate of mine were making an HBO movie, and they are grateful for their rescues and made good in one way or another.

I made it quite clear, this dude took some risks and made mistakes and their are consequences. Let's see if he deals appropriately with them....


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:37 pm 
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I was not implying that the cause of impact was not a mistake (I do not B.A.S.E, I do not know any details, I can't comment on that), i was hinting that I do not think that his 'behavior' (wrt jumping and or jeopardizing future use) was a mistake, as could have been inferred / implied.
A PM would not have allowed other readers of this thread the chance to question what is being reported as "fact" in the media.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:43 pm 
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Real Name: Charles Edelstein
Tristan then direct your comments at the media and not at me.


Chris as an old geyser who has never been sponsored and have sponsored many, I can tell you that it is all self serving. There is really no such thing as altruism. But that's a separate issue.

We all feed our own rat. BUT! It is all about consequences. If we take risks, especially extra-ordinary risks, and you have said categorically that Jeb does so, then we must be prepared to deal with the consequences and pay the tab. We must not expect anyone else to. He is a serious, cutting edge risk taker. That's absolutely fine. But he has some accounting to do, that's all........The jury is out!

Some of my buddies think I am crazy too in terms of the risks I take but not at the level he does and I would like to think that I can fully account for the risks I take, deal with consequences and pay my way. But even then, if I did have to make a cock-up, my family would pay emotionally and that I can never "pay" for and account for. And for that reason, I would never raise the ante to his level. And if ever I needed a rescue, well, I have a lot of credit to my name in rescuing others and I would be buying the dudes who helped me more than one beer.

There was a guy I am sure you have heard of called Dan Osman who was also out there at the extreme edge of risk and he also made what I reckon was an inevitable fatal mistake. Difference is, he left behind a partner and a kid. How do you account for that.....


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:32 pm 
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Real Name: Christo Snyman
Hi Snort, you make some good points and it is all getting pretty philosophical. I cannot disagree with you on sponsorship, but I feel the self-serving attitude is not solely confined to sponsored athletes. I have sponsored my fair share as well and have had similiar experiences, but I do also feel there is some good that comes from it, even if it is only the enjoyment of watching someone do something REALLY well.

As far as Jeb is concerned as you well point out, the jury is out so let see what he does.

I think risk taking is a interesting thing and it has always intrigued me. The level of what is acceptable is different for everyone. You have a long and fairly impressive climbing career as well, no doubt you have approach it with a certain amount of discipline to make it as safe as possible but for many simply going out to silvermine will represent an unacceptable level of risk. Just look at the amount of hoops climbers have to jump through when they get life insurance.

I've recently become a father and your point of view change, and your own personal line of what is acceptable shifts. I would agree what Dan Osman did was downright irresponsible, but it was his choice to make. I don't think Jeb and Dan Osman are very comparative cases though. I do/did not know either personally, just their public persona. Both take tremendous risk, but it is my impression that the risk Dan took was tainted by a level of desperation and recklessness that I do not see in Jeb, I might be wrong though. We will all leave someone behind when we die, I think if you have dependants you are responsible to make sure they are looked after if something happens to you. Jeb no doubt have family and friends who will miss him greatly if he should be gone. Do we therefore say that we no longer should allow anyone to take risk because your death might cause someone else pain? All risky behaviour and "extreme" sports holds a level of risk, which on some level makes participating in them selfish, but ultimately we still need to be true to ourselves.

For most people on the street what Dan did, Jeb does or what you do on TM during the weekends all get grouped in the same batshit crazy unnecessary risk taking category. It is like grade 24 for me, which is pretty much the same as grade 35, I can group it all together as climbs I cannot do.

I have participated in a handfull of rescues, but certainly not enough to buy myself a lot of goodwill. If I ever do get into trouble I hope there will be people willing to help me regardless of the fact that my cup is not too full. I will also be pretty appreciative and will buy them as many beers as they want :-). I'm pretty sure Jeb has participated in many rescue of his own, but ultimately your right to help should not depend on that. If his actions affects the use of the mountain for others I agree he will have some accounting to do, but personally I do not think he needs to account for the fact that he is taking what most of us seems like extreme risk. That line is too blurry and we all go past it in the eyes of someone else.

Anyway this is a lot of rambling for no real purpose. My believe is the mountain is there to be used by everyone and I will fight for Jeb right to jump off it in the same way I will fight for some overweight american tourist right to head up india venster if he insist. We all adults and we should all be allowed to make our own choices in life and if shit goes wrong then you take the consequences for that, and hopefully you are also man enough to say I fck up. I will then also defend that person right to go back and try and do it right. I will also fight that person if he decides to sue table mountain national park for his injuries, that part of being allowed to make your own choices you also need to stand up and take responsibility for them. I think this is something that no longer happens in many countries so people are actually unable of making responsibible choices without hand holding.

We need people like Jeb in the world. At some stage long ago some dude in a cave got tired of eating berries and going hungry in winter and decided that he going to try and stick a sharp stick into a mammoth side. I'm pretty sure that dude died a horrible death, but someone watched him do it, learned from it and decided it is probably wise to go as a team and have a better plan That is how progress happens. Sometimes a senseless act of risktaking leads to something far greater that enriches all of humanity.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:28 am 
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Real Name: Charles Edelstein
Hi Chris, seems we agree to agree. And your rambling is actually very sensible and well put.


Self serving acts are what life is all about. But I cannot stand it when people market their deeds as being selfless acts "for the greater good". They are deluded or frauds. I have no problem with self serving provided you give as much to society, if not more than, you take from it . I am one of the most self-serving people know. As a doctor I primarily fix people because I get a kick out of fixing people and improving their lives. It really gives me great personal pleasure. I also a earn a living from it which is rather nice. And I would like to think that I am pretty good at it too - which is even better. (I am a much better Ortho Surgeon than a climber - see I am doing self serving marketing here) :wink:

I also "guide" many people climbing for free, never charged anyone etc etc . Again, it is self serving. I get a kick out of it to entertain people on an exciting climb. I love climbing with my wife, Margaret. I am always pushing her and very few spouses after 28 years together get along at all on rock climbs. Again I get a real kick out of it. In fact I was climbing with her when Jeb crashed.

Both as a climber and a doctor, I have always put in my all often at the expense of my family. They are the only ones that I "steal" from. But they know that without climbing or fixing people I am not me. And I make it up in other ways. But to take extra-ordinary risks that might kill me would simply not be fair to them so I really try and manage that as best I can. Funny thing is that I often find myself on easy climbing where it is too time consuming and annoying to protect myself safely and I try as much as possible to stick to steep scary but safe rock. So my risk is probably greater on easy stuff than tricky stuff.

Back to Jeb, I can infer from what you are saying is that guys like Jeb, who push the limits, enrich other peoples' lives too by showing where the limits may lie so we can learn from it and come along more easily and more safely if we want to do it. That is a part of "giving" too.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:37 pm 
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The "official" video is out:

.

More words here

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:58 pm 
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Helluva thing!

In the link, the guy mentions paring down the number of cameras... he obviously doesn't realise that he is looking at the camera man and not Jeb.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:29 pm 
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Helluva thing indeed. I imagined a much more gentle affair, seeing that he only broke his legs. Quite a tumble. He should be grateful to be alive at all.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:40 pm 
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Ouch.

Is that his helmet popping off? Incredible that he had the presence of mind to pull his emergency chute...which seems not to be part of the clip.

Can't help recalling an interview Jeb gave after an Ozzie wingsuiter he did a stunt with died during the stunt. Jeb had some pretty condescending things to say about the guy being reckless and trying to fly too close to the bridge...which he ended up hitting.

Strikes one as a little hypocritical in hindsight.

One thing is for sure: Jeb is one lucky dude.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:57 pm 
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No the black thing is not his helmet popping, it is a black balloon on the ledge that he was trying to flick with his leg on the pass - like he did in this video, watch the balloons at 1:19


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:11 pm 
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Real Name: Cormac Tooze
New crash footage-multiple angles and screen shots



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:43 pm 
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The Video of the collision by Jeb himself.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:33 pm 
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How do you know there is a Doctor on the forum.... Because he will tell you so :)


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:24 am 
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Haha, I didn't see that other post that is the same as mine. I guess you will have to watch it twice :)

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:07 am 
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Image

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:32 am 
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Nic Le Maitre wrote:
Image

I just see leg hitting rock :/


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:37 pm 
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Hi Guys

Helped Jeb outta hospital to his shuttle, and off to the airport home on Friday. He's stoked to be outta hospital after 6 weeks on his back. In short, he's not the kinda guy who will go rushing into the bar to buy a round of drinks, but he has expressed his thanks to all involved, Moose was working with him and knows the score.
Im not keen to get involved in a long debate because its senseless, but Jeb is not chasing glory or fame, or on a 'self-serving' mission of any sort. In a nutshell, he had a very troubled childhood and early teens, and basically made a choice to committ suicide, and in that time, he discovered BASE, and discovered the first thing he really enjoyed, and to quote Jeb,,"in the early days, if he died, then I got what I wanted, and if I survived the jump, then it was a blast..I was in a win-win.."

He became very good, and now his driving force is BASE, its what he does, and like Sharma, and other top athletes in 'cinderella sports', he needs to find ways to pay bills, hence the publicity. I chatted to jeb the day after he was admitted to ICU, and he has a comprehensive insurance to cover his bills in this sort of situation. Difference is, guys are rescued all the time off the mountain with no cover, but because its Jeb Corliss, and a dramatic Wing Suit strike, its suddenly big news and everyone jumps on the bandwagon.

Re the jump, that wasnt a reserve chute, it was his only chute. yes he was lucky, but the thing that saved Jeb Corliss was his ability to keep thinking and keep flying and keep making the right decisions AFTER the imapct. First impact was his left foot on a boulder, that dipped his head down towards the ledge. 2nd impact was his waist on the ledge, and that spun him. At that point, Jeb's skills saved him. Instead of pulling, he realised he needed to get flying, he found the horizon, and got flying, but then realised he was facing the gully. He still banked away from the gulley to get clear air, and then pulled. If he'd thrown the pilot chute on impact, or whilst facing the gully, he wouldnt be here today.

In closing, I wanted to do a short interview with him, but he declined because he's not after media. Even a positive spin which is what mine would have taken. He was just anxious to avoid any more publicity, feeling it would have jepoardised the local BASE fraternity, and that was that. The team working with Jeb are also letting it quieten down, but my job in media made me feel that I should offer a slightly different perspective on this forum.

Jebs a complicated, talented, driven individual. But when you see him type a message on facebook, and within seconds replies start flying in like the second- hand on a clock, you realise just how big his following is, and also his need to just lie low for a while. I love his work, its amazing how much technical input / HOD helmet electronics etc etc go into what he's doing..its ground breaking..and society needs that shit. Jebs last words to me when he closed the taxi door were "Rock on dude.." To Jeb, I couldnt put it better myself. :-)


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:04 pm 
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And an interview with Jeb discussing what went wrong

http://teamcoco.com/video/jeb-corliss-accident

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:58 pm 
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Jeb Corliss interview with Conan after his Table Mountain crash.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:54 pm 
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From Jeff above: "In closing, I wanted to do a short interview with him, but he declined because he's not after media. Even a positive spin which is what mine would have taken. He was just anxious to avoid any more publicity." Hmmm. And now he has done two interviews on US TV. Makes you wonder?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:10 am 
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That may well have been the case at the time, however Jeb probably lives off his sponsorship (it enables him to do what he does). Doing the interview was probably a (good) career move, he had been on the show before and after doing an interview on such a popular show (and laying it all out) he probably won't need to do anymore interviews about his TM accident.

It is unfortunate about the balloon marker getting caught under a rock :|

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:24 pm 
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Wow,

Good Interview...
Did he say "Solid Granite" @ around 3:06 ?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:03 pm 
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Real Name: Johann Lanz
He's a base jumper, not a geologist.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:26 am 
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Interview: BASE Jumper Jeb Corliss on Lucky Crashes
FYI: There are no geologist's at Outside Mag either :wink:

Any other big projects in the works?
I want to start touching things during flights. I did it by accident on Table Mountain. Now I want to do it on purpose—trees, bushes. I’m just going to try to avoid touching solid granite from this point forward.

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