hi all

im looking for a Trango Cinch, does anyone know were i can find one or has one they want to sell?

i might even consder swoping my a grigri 2 for one.

happy days

dan

Have you tried going to a shop that sells climbing gear? Most have them.

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If you aren't willing to solve your own problems, how can you expect others to?

We used to import Trango gear, including the Cinch (and BigBro).
But the major selling point of the Cinch was that it could do skinny single ropes (< 10mm).
With Grigri 2, that's no longer the case, so we stopped bringing them in. What's wrong with your Grigri 2?
- Robert

@ warren G... i have had a look online at MMO and Mamoth Outdoor and they dont seem to have them. But havent been to a climbing store yet to have a look. Just wanted to see if anyone has one they are wanting to sell...

@Robert... i used the Cinch on the weekend and i find its much better at giving out slack then the Grigri 2 (in my opinion), so thats why i would like one.

I dont think you will find a new Cinch anywhere else in SA, online or in a shop.
Maybe a used one somewhere.
Yes the Cinch pays out rope really fast. but it is equally fast on the descent. It's not as controllable lowering like the Grigri.
I personally wouldn't bother, stick with the Grigri 2.
But am happy to add a Cinch to our next order if you like, probably December. Price R700.
- Robert

Hmm you may have imported them but I do not agree...

He is spot on...it pays out better & locks just fine...I bought one in the states long before you imported them & still think it is slightly easier to use than both grigri's...

OK OK I can hear you all screaming but as far as I am concerned the Gri gri 2 is an attempt to make the gri gri like the Trango...in my opinion a failed attempt...sure it is lighter & has less moving parts but it also sticks a lot easier , so I would actually prefer the original (more xpensive to make) Gri Gri.

In my books the world over manufacturers are all playing the same game...how to give you less for more...& I believe this to be the case (cheaper to manufacture but sold for slightly more- look at cars, fridges, washing machines, harnesses...)

Sad but true, so I am sorry if the guy says he finds it better for him then he is right it is better for him (also not the subject of recalls because it is a bad imitation )

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Really, its not that bad...I think it's my shoes...

I haven't used a Cinch in years and have not owned one...

I don't have a problem paying out slack with the Grigri 2 (it's even easier/faster with thinner ropes).

Although the handling of the (newer) Grigri is different it is a safer device vs the original Grigri.

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Climb ZA - Administrator

check out the Supertopo climbing forum discussion:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1881684/Gri-gri-vs-Cinch
lots of people on there that have experience with both.

we last the sold one to Roc'Rope a long time ago, pretty sure they sold it, but you could try them.
dont bother with any of the other retail shops that warren mentions, they won't even know what you are talking about.
like i said before, happy to bring one in.

Warren said nothing as his post was removed: this website deemed my reply to be advertising shops that don't advertise on this site.

For the record I have no affiliation to any shops I mentioned, nor any commercial interest in this conversation at all, and was simply trying to help Dandan as I went to all the shops I mentioned over the last 8 weeks, and noted the stock.

Love
Warren

_________________
If you aren't willing to solve your own problems, how can you expect others to?

Hi Dan,

We still have one Trango Cinch in stock

Contact us for details.

Regards,

Alex.

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Gustav
Roc 'n Rope Adventures
Waterval Boven
013 257 0363
rocrope dot com

@Justin

I must point out that though you may have an opinion it remains your opinion & is not necessarily a fact

From the forum you referred us to there were as many people saying their Cinch is better than those saying otherwise.

As for SAFER where did you pull that one from? Yes it works on thinner ropes...thats not the same thing is it?

I would contend that if you look at the cams on the old gri gri & the new you will notice how the old one moves to create the clamping action...not so the new one...as it copies the cinch (in the process losing what was good about Gri gri's) SO SAFER? Hmmm your opinion once again...

Clearly both items are safe Duh or they would be retracted from the market (as I pointed out previously the only one that has suffered a recall is the gri gri 2)

A good point from the other forum is that the inadvertant triggering of the release is more likely to happen with gri gri's than the Cinch

So other than punting one or other retailer lets just say that this is a lovely discussion that will go on & on...

What is clear is that if you don't know how to use these devices then you will blame them when your inability shows to the fore...I know as a new Gri Gri 2 owner allowed me to plummet about 4 metres before they worked out that they should be stopping the fall...

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Really, its not that bad...I think it's my shoes...

opinion
your opinion
pure speculation - you were in the mind of the entire design team at Petzl?
- in your opinion, exactly
<<first fact encountered here<<
back to opinion, probably because you didn't read the instructions
logically valid
- false: one recall
pure speculation

100% correct you are (I think Pierre covered most of that - tx Pierre ) - this is a discussion forum, we're here to voice opinions (and in some case) argue a little and hopefully make a (correct) informed decision.


To be clear, I am comparing Grigri's only (I am not comparing anything to the the Cinch - I have no opinion on the Cinch).
Here is a review of the Grigri 2 that I did a while back GRIGRI 2 Review – Assisted braking belay device


User error - can happen anytime with any device.

So Old Smelly, the question remains... do you own a Grigri or a Cinch

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Climb ZA - Administrator

I think I said I owned a Cinch...

& yes of course all my statements were my opinion...(duh Pierre dot Joubert all that to show that you are truly a genius)

My real point (I think with those whose IQ is above boiling point got it) is that even if Justin posts an article on something it is still his opinion & not a given fact...you can see Justin got that...because otherwise he would have wiped out my post

The real issue is for others to realise this & not just take it as gospel truth, like some acolytes Pierre

So yes I did state that my belayer was inexperienced hence the error with the Gri Gri 2.

The point remains - you can love Gri Gri's or think they are death machines but unless the user tests them side by side YOU cannot tell him that they are better than the Cinch & I CAN offer an opinion as to whether they are easier to use & better engineered & unless YOU can somehow come up with some real facts then all of this will remain moot

Oh & Pierre, when I joke about something like a recall - ok so it was a prod, I hope you don't desperately search the web for a retort because of your passionate devotion to the god GRI GRI I too use PETZL products & believe they are of the highest quality but my gods are DMM & Black Diamund...Oh well maybe he was just having an agro day...

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Really, its not that bad...I think it's my shoes...

Wow. You mean not everything written on the internet is FACT?? Shock. Horror. Oh and nice big word use there.

You complain about a lack of facts then provide lots of opinion and only one fact. (two if you count that you own a cinch), then finish that off with personal attacks, insults and anonymous sarcasm.

Class. I'm not surprised your belayer "let you plummet". Maybe apply the "boiling water IQ test" to the people you climb with.

Rob, is that you buddy?

Like I said it seems you pierre dot joubert are the agro one with the personal attack...yes that's right go back to your original post & read it & then consider that my well humoured original posts...that may have vaguely insulted Justin & poor ole Robert a little...were quite aggressively responded to by yours truly...

Anyhow most of those comments could only be insulting if they weren't true...

And as for anonymous sarcasm...that's a contradiction in terms isn't it - if it was anonymous how would YOU know it was sarcasm...

I think I had better get off this thread before someone accuses me of being a TROLL again...I always find that so insulting...how do you know what I look like

So: MY OPINION IS THAT THE CINCH IS BETTER based on my use of one. My opinion remains that the Gri Gri 2 is not as good as some say and my opinion is that if you have not practiced with any of these devices they can be dangerous. Just the same as everyone else on this forum these are only my opinions.

So rush off to Rocn Rope buddy as they have offered one

As for you with the strange acronym (yes you know who you are but some others may be able to guess )...I think I will retain my opinion about room temp IQ's

P.S. The reason I choose to remain anonymous is so that I can give unreserved opinions on things that matter (not this stuff... please ) without shocking people who think I am nice This whole PC tell everyone who you are thing flies in the face of the real idea of being on the forum - its almost tantamount to censure because then everyone has to pussyfoot around questions asked in case they insult a buddy or one of the greats of climbing. So in my case if you don't like me being anonymous get over it - at least everyone doesn't think now that I am a vindictive twit - unlike some others here CLASS

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Really, its not that bad...I think it's my shoes...

Ok. Got it. Just to recap: all this:

- the sum total text of my first post in this thread, you see as "a personal attack" from "aggro me".

Sensitive boy, aren't you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-esteem#Low_self-esteem could lead to "Hypersensitivity to criticism with resentment against critics and feelings of being attacked."

Maybe analyse whether you're actually talking kak before getting offended?

Read carefully, I never said anything (positive or negative) about the flippen grigri 1 or 2 or cinch or whatever you belay with. I really don't care what device you use.

Good day.

Get an Edelrid Eddy.

Clearly Grigris & Cinches are for dudes on menopause.

My advice has no basis more reliable than my own meandering experience. I will dispense this advice now:

- Cinch feeds better
- Cinch better for multi-pitch:
* more compact
* can be clipped in while threading (though Nic leM has suggested equivalent non-factory mods for a GriGri)
- Chich is more succeptible to operator error (see Trango Instructional Video)

Nice one Marshall..particularly the menopause bit.... ...one point is that the Eddy is the heaviest of all the devices mentioned here by far...not always the most important thing but worth noting..

Goood on you Babycoat for trying to keep us on the subject....

As for you ...you nameless individual (as names are not worth mentioning) I take back the boiling point IQ remark....definately a case of room temperature IQ

To openly confess on the web that you picked a fight with an anonymous person on the web withou once actually adressing the topic of the thread...hmmm I would be careful about the insults I throw around if I had been the one who did that....sorry I did not have time to search the web for a physchological condition for that...

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Really, its not that bad...I think it's my shoes...

I have played with an Eddy.
I would say that it is a safer device over the Grigri and Cinch - mostly due to it automatically locking if you lower too fast.
You just need to get used to loading it the other way round

Is it just me or were Grigri's safer when you didn't touch the rope when someone fell off (and just let the device do it's thing - the user manual obviously states otherwise)

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Climb ZA - Administrator

The panic stop on the Eddy is rather strange. Basically it works if you pull the handle too far, the cam engages and the rope is jammed. To continue lowering you have to push the handle back from the panic stop position. This of course means that the cam disengages and the rope starts feeding really fast because the cam is now in its most open position. Continue pushing the handle until the cam re-engages and the rope no longer feeds. Then you can continue lowering normally by pulling on the handle.

This is quite scary the first few times you use it! Not a device I would recommend for a beginner. It is also rather heavy.

Back to the original discussion, why not just use a Bug/ATC/Reverso/etc, they give rope so easily and belaying is super smooth? Also, there has never been a belaying accident with a bug/etc in SA. Where as many people have been dropped on Gri-Gri's and similar.

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Happy climbing
Nic

I don't get this...it is far easier to drop someone with a bug than a gri-gri...
If you poop yourself with a gri-gri...just let go (worst case scenario i know)...if omsone poos themselves with a bug or they get hurt/etc...you're hitting the ground.
Gri-gri all the way...for noobs and experienced alike (i'm sure the same goes for the cinch ...although I've never used one).
I think one of the reasons people find the gri-gri intimidating is because so many people tell them it is intimidating. IMHO it is easier to use than a normal atc, safer and harder to actually screw up belaying someone.

@Cuan,

This is actually not the case. When people freak out, they tend to grab on tight... This works perfectly with an ATC but if they grab the cam on the Gri-Gri, the climber comes down fast. It tends to be during lowering that beginners get it wrong with the Gri-Gri, they pull too hard on the lever and the climber starts coming fast, so they tense up and pull even harder! The last thing they do is just let go (which as you say is the right thing).
I will only teach beginners on an ATC - it teaches correct technique and I think it is safer. I have never had an issue in my gym with these devices, but there have been people dropped fast with Gri-Gri's. It is surprisingly hard to mess up belaying with an ATC!

Josh

Josh.
Yeah I get what you are saying, but I have found the opposite to be the case as well.
Especially if the person has been taught correctly to hold the other end with their right hand. Rope burn=let go.
I get what you're saying about the cam...but I would still much rather trust a relatively inexperienced person to belay me with a gri-gri and an atc

I just wish people were not given such a bad impression of these "auto-locking" devices...
I mean honestly, they are safer than an atc when used properly of course...but it just seems there is this negative view of them...SUrely WAAAAAAY more people have been dropped by someone belaying with an atc than gri-gri, cinch, etc?

If you learn to belay with a non-autolocking device then you get one concept drilled into your head: You never, ever let go of the tail of the rope, not for any reason. People who learn to belay with a Gri-Gri or similar are often taught incorrectly because "it is easier this way" (i.e. to not have your hand on the tail of the rope). In all Petzl's literature they clearly state that you must have your hand on the tail of the rope at all times. If everyone obeyed the instructions then we would never have had an accident but they don't and we have had several.

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Happy climbing
Nic

It is not giving a bad impression, it is stating a device's shortcomings/hazards clearly. People fail to comprehend the dangers of using a Gri-Gri precisely because everyone goes on about how much safer it is. Conversely with a bug/atc everyone is clear on it's shortcomings and manages them properly.

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Happy climbing
Nic

maybe, but i still think they've gotten an unnecessarily bad reputation.
People really do pretty much always make them out to be more difficult to use and more lifely that you will be dropped by someone using them.
Whereas that is not true...If you use a bug and an "auto-locker" both euqually correctly, there is still far more chance of you getting hurt when being belayed with a bug.
It is not portrayed in that manner though

Agreed.

I often find myself in situations where I have first time climbers/belayers holding my rope.
I always give them a Reverso (i.e. non-autolocking device) to use.

I also agree with what Nic says about the learning to use a non-autolocking first.

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Climb ZA - Administrator

Hey Justin.
I don't think it honestly matters which device you teach someone with first, so long as they are taught the correct method from the start - NNB
Getting rid of bad habits is hard

Soz for the thread hijack guys

Cheers,
Cuan