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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 10:33 am 
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Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 8:49 pm
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Derek I think our objections stem more from the simple amazement that people would find such overstatement necessary at all, rather than any realistic difference it would make to the visual impact. Whats wrong with a topo drawing???? Complaints that 'not everyone owns guidebooks' are complete crap! Why not!!! Go and buy one immediately!! Support your local guidebook authors, they should be encouraged as much as possible.

If anyone does do this (label thing) I sincerely hope its in the form of a washer-like tag that could fit over the bolt stud under the nut and that is made from 316 stainless steel or other compatible material. (Be very careful choosing a material!) Swing tags would to my mind look scrappy and unprofessional and would not be that easy to read.
Then we have the problem of high first bolts how do you read the tag?? I and others have always spray painted our hangers to match the rock and minimize visual impact, how will the tag comply with this? (This camouflaging is very necessary/desirable at many crags).
Who is going to foot the bill? (This might be quite substantial if you are going to retrofit entire crags, etched and printed metal tags [something I have used in my professional capacity for years] are not cheap!)
Who will ensure that the same tags are used everywhere?
Do you really want the extra hassle of having to have a tag made each time you bolt a line?

Lastly there is the simple fact that labelling everything removes any sense of adventure and discovery. Do we really want our crags to look like a tube station in London with all the do's and dont's spelled out in large capitals on signs everywhere??? I think its a crap idea. I suggest climbers new to a crag 1. Buy a guidebook [Support us starving guidebook authors!] 2. Ask other climbers for info [Be a part of the community, communicate, most climbers will be happy to oblige with info, and even show you around to get you started at a new crag]


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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 11:02 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:09 am
Posts: 434
By no means am I intrested in labling routes. But if someone desires to lable his/her routes, I can't think of a good objection...other than it being a waste of his/her time.

Is there really a spirit of adventure at Legoland, for instance. Is there any real adventure to be had at the average sport crag. There are serious chalenges & lots of fun, but limited risk & adventure. That is the point of a sport crag. So why not lable all the routes, there by limiting any posible confusion..

20+- years ago bolts were shunned & frowned apon. Today that are almost the rule(SA). How long will our anti-lable stand last? Was not chalk frowned apon in the beginning?


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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 11:47 am 
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Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 8:49 pm
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Thats a relief! Didnt take you for one of the 'spell everything out for me' people Derek. Lets hope if this does happen, its only at super popular crags where beginners/visitors might need that extra confirmation (which of course raises the problem that they may start expecting it at every crag!), and that it is done in an intelligent and cohesive manner (Same tags everywhere, out of material that will not cause corrosion issues)

I can see where Andy is going with the signage, some areas are being overrun and intelligent protocol not being followed (thinking of Rocklands where there are too many paths and not enough communication to visitors about the sensitivity of the area and the correct manner in which to behave in such an area). Mark my comment about glasses stems from us trying our damndest to make bolts as invisible as possible by painting them and even putting them in hidden places. Your energies for organisation would be better spent helping to devise ways of coping with the impacts of crowds in places like Rocklands. Labelling routes, I would think, features pretty low on the list of priorities at the moment.

Lets put the effort and thought where needed. Stabilising and formalising paths, communicating protocol to overseas visitors (and ignorant locals! -sadly lacking at present), minimizing and preventing further damage to vegetation - rehabilitating where necessary, removing alien vegetation, ensuring fixed equipment is sound. There is lots to do, forget about labels for now. Only once all of the more urgent and glaring problems have been solved should we consider nicities like name tags, and even then hopefully only at the most frequented crags.


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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2006 9:53 am 
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Joined: Tue May 17, 2005 9:06 am
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Location: Cape Town
Agreed, erosion and litter are the big issues.


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