Ebert Nel is dead right: this is about opinions. And confusingly aggregating opinions has a wide range of applications: rating the difficulty of university courses, or the quality of movies, books, webpages, and so forth, which politicians to elect, the price of a stock, and so on. I realise now that GUARD has a range of applications and I ought to be specific. What we are talking about here is a
Climbing Application Requiring GUARD, or
CARGUARD for short.
The CARGUARD project is in a sense an extension of an initial collaboration. Some guys set up a google doc that anyone can edit
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Avb3X_KE1zwcdC1QcDJXSWRFSThiU0pKeU54amkyN0E&hl=en_US#gid=0This is probably a good idea so I have set up a google doc too. Please add your name to the bottom of the list and a few routes. This is open to everyone. Your contribution is appreciated. You can do this in your own time, and your short list is better than no list. Easy routes, hard routes, Cape routes, non-Cape routes: all are needed.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VFkwFkziS-ZRjLUo7PrfaOvRgF4uv7MblE37IBrLPYg/editAn updated Aggregate List can be created at the press of a button.
The idea of the CARGUARD system is not that it is flawless but rather that it is more accurate and useful than other available methods such as guidebooks, or averaging number grades on 8a.nu. It brings grades for different crags in line. All methods will have the problems of different strengths and weaknesses, hazy recollections, improved ability over time. But CARGUARD has advantages over the other methods (see above) that tend to mitigate these problems.
@brianweaver: There is no rush to do this, and your input will be very useful. I have taken the liberty of starting your list with the four-route ranking implied by your post. Please add some more routes when you have the chance. Even if it is just a handful. Perhaps you know some Joburg okes that you can pressure into providing their ranking lists too. I took your idea of using Monster as benchmark (fair) 29 and Jack of All Trades as benchmark 30 (see
http://www.climbing.co.za/2012/02/where-did-the-8a-benchmark-go/). This has the effect of taking El Nino and Hypoxia under 30 (as you suspected).
CARGUARD can be extended to provide a measure of the
variability in opinion for each route. This will be interesting. For some routes there will be more agreement to the difficulty than others. This can be quantified.
There are two parts to CARGUARD: (1) forming the Aggregate List and (2) fitting number grades to the ranks. I think part 1 is the most interesting. For instance, it shows
Walk on By is considered to be easier than
Sickle Moon even though Tony's guide book implies the opposite. Regardless of what the numbers are---you might grade them 9006 and 9012---the important thing is that what is considered to be the more difficult route cannot have a lower number grade.
@Thermophage thanks for the interest and the backing of the ranking idea. Can you provide a list?
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VFkwFkziS-ZRjLUo7PrfaOvRgF4uv7MblE37IBrLPYg/editI think AndyDavies is correct no one wants to be seen as a pussy, the one oke who gives a higher grade. Xenomorph is right that grade inflation is occurring. The nice thing about ranking is that you can see where that AdK route from the 80s fits in without worrying about what a particular number grade means has changed over the years. (This confuses people about money too:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_illusion)
FWIW, here's the new Aggregate List:
< 24, Goonie Goo Goo, Oudtshoorn, AH JS KV KF PB PO
< 24, Shagadelic, Montagu, AH PP PO
< 24, Walk on By, Montagu, JS KF PO
< 24, Sickle Moon, The Mine, AH GF JS KV KF PO
< 24, Fin, Fang, Fly, Oudtshoorn, AH JS PO
< 24, The Neuromancer, Montagu, AH GF JS KF PP PO
< 24, Miss Mckinley, Boven, AH PB PP PO
< 24, Rude Bushman, Boven, AH JS KV PB PP PO
< 24, Phallic Mechanic, Oudtshoorn, AH JS KV PO
< 24, The Church of Frederico, Montagu, AH JS KV PO
< 24, The Jester, Montagu, KF PP PO
soft 24, Rock-Chucka-Chick, Boven, KF PP PO
soft 24, Rattle and Hum, Montagu, JS PP PO
soft 24, Cactus Palace, Waterval Boven, KF PP
soft 24, Jimmy and the Big Boys, The Mine, AH GF JS KV KF PO
soft 24, Eddy of Bovidence, Montagu, AH JS KV KF PP PO
fair 24, Rapscallion La Codge, Oudtshoorn, JS PP
fair 24, Women Ain't Nothing but Trouble, Waterval Boven, KV PP
fair 24, Cleinous Hing, Montagu, AH PO
fair 24, Atomic Aardvark, Boven, JS PB PP
fair 24, Behr Hug, Oudtshoorn, AH GF JS KV KF PO
hard 24, Cyberpunk, Montagu, AH JS KV KF PP PO
hard 24, Hunks on the Ceiling, Truitjieskraal, KF RH
hard 24, Freak On, Boven, AH JS KF PP PO
hard 24, Swan Lake, The Mine, AL AH GF JS KV KF PP PO
soft 25, Beautiful Day, Montagu, AL PO
soft 25, Brother Bear, Oudtshoorn, AL AH JS
soft 25, Lord Melbury, Silvermine, KF RH
soft 25, Red Guitar on Fire, The Mine, AL AH GF JS KV KF PB PP PO RH
soft 25, First Wave, Montagu, AL AH JS KV KF PP PO
fair 25, Jambo, Boven, PP RH
fair 25, Madiba, Montagu, GF JS KF PO RH
fair 25, Holy Moly, Montagu, AH KV PO
hard 25, Dungeons and Dragons, Boven, AL AH
hard 25, Hueco Punks, Truitjieskraal, KF RH
hard 25, Big Foot, Oudtshoorn, AH JS PP PO RH
soft 26, Paws, Oudtshoorn, AL AH HC JR JS KV KF PB PP PO RH
soft 26, Silver Streak, Silvermine, KF RH
fair 26, Delete Button, Montagu, AL RH
fair 26, Thruster, Montagu, AL AH JS KV KF PB PP PO RH
fair 26, Digital Bitch, Montagu, GF JS KF PP PO
hard 26, Leap Tide, Montagu, AH JR PO RH
hard 26, Sid Vicious, Oudtshoorn, AH JS KV PP PO RH
hard 26, Pocket Rocket, Kalk Bay, PB PP
soft 27, Chocolate Eclair, Boven, AL AH HC PO
soft 27, Wings of Glory, Kleinmond, AH PO
soft 27, Menopaws, Oudtshoorn, JS PP PO RH
soft 27, The Optimist, Montagu, AL AH GF JS KV KF PO
fair 27, Half Quick, Oudtshoorn, HC RH
fair 27, Hell Yeah, Boven, AH HC
fair 27, Simply Irresistible, Montagu, AL AH HC JR JS KF PO
fair 27, Lost Safari, Oudtshoorn, JS RH
fair 27, The Happy Hooker, The Mine, HC KF
fair 27, Johnny Rotten, Oudtshoorn, AL AH JR JS KV PB PO RH
hard 27, Route 66, The Hole, JS KF
hard 27, Lotter's Desire, Boven, AH HC JR JS KV KF PB PO RH
hard 27, Winston, Kleinmond, AH PO
hard 27, Neanderthal Rex, Montagu, AH GF JS KF PO
soft 28, All That Glitters Is Gold, The Mine, GF HC JR JS KV KF PP PO
soft 28, Rad and Bad, Montagu, JS KF PO
soft 28, Daze of Thunder, Montagu, AH GF HC JR JS KV KF PB PO RH
fair 28, Whoa She Poopie, Montagu, HC JR JS KV PO
fair 28, Trainspotting, Silvermine, AH PO RH
fair 28, Virus, The Hole, JS KF
fair 28, Burning Chrome, Montagu, JS KF PO
fair 28, Eraserhead, Boven, HC KV PB RH
hard 28, A Gift of Wings, The Mine, AL AH HC JS KF PP PO
hard 28, Firestarter!, Montagu, AH HC JS KF PB PO SB
hard 28, Hot Toddy Benson, Montagu, HC JS
hard 28, Mono, The Mine, JS KF PO
soft 29, Espionage, Kalk Bay, AH PO
soft 29, Going Going Gone, Oudtshoorn, AH HC PO
soft 29, Monkey Pump, Montagu, AL AH GF HC JS KV KF PB PO SB
soft 29, Seven (Wimp Finish), Oudtshoorn, AL AH HC JS KV PB PO RH
soft 29, Hard Play, Oudtshoorn, HC PO
fair 29, Monster, Boven, AL BW HC JS PB PO
fair 29, Cool Like That, Montagu, AL AH GF HC JS KV KF PB PO SB
fair 29, Snapdragon, Boven, GF HC JS KV PB PP RH SB
fair 29, Paragon, Wave Cave, JS SB
fair 29, The Shouting Stage, Montagu, HC JS
hard 29, Twisted Steel and Sex Appeal, Montagu, AH JS PO SB
hard 29, A Gift of Gold, The Mine, KF PO
hard 29, Ben Dover, Montagu, AH HC JS
hard 29, Point Break, Montagu, AH HC JR JS KV KF PO SB
hard 29, El Nino, Oudtshoorn, BW HC JS KV PB PO RH SB
hard 29, Hypoxia, Montagu, BW GF JS KF PB PO SB
soft 30, Golden Eye, Kalk Bay, AL JS KF PO
soft 30, The Vice, Oudtshoorn, HC JS
soft 30, Up for Grabs, Oudtshoorn, AH HC JS PB PO SB
soft 30, The Activist, Montagu, AH BW HC JS KV KF PB PO SB
fair 30, Jack of All Trades, Boven, HC JS SB
fair 30, Mama Africa, Oudtshoorn, HC JS
fair 30, Catholic School Girls Rule, Montagu, JS PO
> 30, Strange Days, Montagu, HC JS SB
> 30, Switchbitch, Montagu, AH JS PO SB
> 30, Kohler-Turkstra, Oudtshoorn, HC JS SB
> 30, Short Circuit, Oudtshoorn, HC JS PB SB
> 30, The Beast, Boven, AL JS
> 30, Barricade, Wave Cave, PB SB
> 30, Godzilla, Boven, HC JS
AL = Adam Ludford
BW = Brian Weaver