Equalising anchors

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justfly
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Re: Equalising anchors

Postby justfly » Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:42 pm

Mr Newman
If yer gona ride the Dragon .....
all I can say is .....
































































......YER GONA DIE .......

But beside that , this is how I like to join webbing and rope
also good for joining thick and thin rope
very easy to adjust to get the tension right
sheep shank
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who needs big jugs when you've got a tight crack

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justfly
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Re: Equalising anchors

Postby justfly » Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:52 pm

You can finish off with a stopper knot
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who needs big jugs when you've got a tight crack

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justfly
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Re: Equalising anchors

Postby justfly » Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:24 am

I sometimes equalise slings on carabiners by wrapping
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who needs big jugs when you've got a tight crack

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Ghaznavid
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Re: Equalising anchors

Postby Ghaznavid » Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:32 am

justfly wrote:Mr Newman
If yer gona ride the Dragon .....
all I can say is .....
......YER GONA DIE .......


What's with calling me "Mr Newman"? :lol:

Everybody dies eventually, not 1 person born prior to 1895 is still alive today :bigsmurf: - I don't think the Berg will be the place for that though :eye: There has been no accidental death in the Berg for something like 4 years now, and statistics suggest that hiking is more dangerous than climbing (as is football, swimming, driving etc) and I hike much more than I climb.

Thanks for the advice on the knots btw.
"There is something fundamentally wrong in treating the Earth as if it were a business in liquidation." Herman E Daly

joshpickering
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Re: Equalising anchors

Postby joshpickering » Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:45 am

A few points.

    The munter hitch on the hex QD - redundant. What was it's purpose?

    The clove hitch on the red sling is also redundant.

    As mentioned before on your last setup, using figure 8 knots in this way is quite bad. It pulls badly when pulled from 3 directions, it will be hard to undo, and its hard to adjust. You could rather use a clove directly on to the hex QD and eliminate the munter and fig8. That would make it very easy to adjust, quick to setup and quick to take down.

    Very seldom should you connect soft to soft. Rather connect the rope to sling using a carabiner. any bouncing on the anchors can mean rubbing between the rope and sling, leading to unnecessary wear.

    There are tons of resources online showing potential anchor setups, best study and practice various methods.

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Ghaznavid
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Re: Equalising anchors

Postby Ghaznavid » Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:58 am

Thanks for the feedback.

joshpickering wrote:The munter hitch on the hex QD - redundant. What was it's purpose?


It was there to shorten the rope, no other reason.

joshpickering wrote:The clove hitch on the red sling is also redundant.


Noted

joshpickering wrote:As mentioned before on your last setup, using figure 8 knots in this way is quite bad. It pulls badly when pulled from 3 directions, it will be hard to undo, and its hard to adjust. You could rather use a clove directly on to the hex QD and eliminate the munter and fig8. That would make it very easy to adjust, quick to setup and quick to take down.


Would you then use an overhand knot at the equalisation point? Or do you mean the rope runs directly through each point and is only cloved in? Basically like the death triangle, but with the rope running one way only and not loosely connected to the gear?

Wouldn't that increase the angle and thus make it more dangerous?
"There is something fundamentally wrong in treating the Earth as if it were a business in liquidation." Herman E Daly

Nic Le Maitre
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Re: Equalising anchors

Postby Nic Le Maitre » Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:56 am

So...

Basically your setup is fine but it is definitely not optimal or efficient. BTW your clove hitch and Munter hitch are correct.

There are two options to use here:
1)Use a double figure of eight on the two pieces on the left just adjust the "ears" until the lengths are correct, they don't have to be the same. Then with your 2nd rope (you are climbing with two ropes?) clove hitch the single piece on the right. Bring the ropes together, pull tight and tie an overhand/BFK with both ropes to use as a "master point" to belay off.

2) Use a cordellette, take single strands to each closer piece and a bight to the furthest piece, bring all the loops together and tie off with a overhand/BFK.

The first one will save you loads of gear and therefore weight. The second is better if you are climbing with two seconds and swapping leads.

I'll go set this up at home later and take some pictures.

FWIW: An alpine butterfly is better at handling multidirectional loading than a figure-8 but the difference in strength is relatively minor compared to the overall strength of the rope. There is no way you as a single person load even with a factor 2 fall can create enough force for the difference in knot strength to matter. You will either pull gear, or kill yourself before the rope will break.
Happy climbing
Nic

Old Smelly
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Re: Equalising anchors

Postby Old Smelly » Tue Jul 16, 2013 10:00 am

My view is that this is a very creative stance. Good ideas Nic & I second the cordellete idea.

The rope on sling - see related discussion somewhere on this forum - but NO -use a locking carabiner or as Nic will suggest two back to back snapgates. :jocolor:

No one is questioning your ability in the Berg but once again from that rather interesting take on a stance (& I know lots of people who do strange things with bunny ears etc. instead of just making a simple cordelette type masterpoint) I still think you should do a course with someone like Gavin Raubenheimer so that the next time we hear about you it is not for all the wrong reasons.

I am not trying to be insulting, but normally the most simple straightforward solution is the best & you need to use those & know those first. Normally its Engineers & people like that who try & come up with creative alternatives - & if you are one of those then master the equallette as that reads as being the most comprehensive solution at this point in time.
Really, its not that bad...I think it's my shoes...

Nic Le Maitre
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Re: Equalising anchors

Postby Nic Le Maitre » Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:01 am

Old Smelly wrote:The rope on sling - see related discussion somewhere on this forum - but NO -use a locking carabiner or as Nic will suggest two back to back snapgates. :jocolor:


Or clove hitch the rope and the sling to the biner, no chance of it popping out then at all and you only need one snapgate then :lol:
Happy climbing
Nic

Old Smelly
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Re: Equalising anchors

Postby Old Smelly » Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:48 pm

Just as an aside, though this is an acceptable solution, locking carabiners on a stance do have other advantages in terms of ease of use & attachment for other points, tethers etc but if absolute minimilism is your thing then that inane idea might appeal.
Really, its not that bad...I think it's my shoes...

Camp
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Re: Equalising anchors

Postby Camp » Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:23 pm

See you at Monteseel Sunday 7am?

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Ghaznavid
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Re: Equalising anchors

Postby Ghaznavid » Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:30 pm

I'm in the Berg this weekend, but maybe next weekend?
"There is something fundamentally wrong in treating the Earth as if it were a business in liquidation." Herman E Daly

Nic Le Maitre
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Re: Equalising anchors

Postby Nic Le Maitre » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:48 am

IMG_20130716_174846.jpg
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Anchor rigged with two ropes making an equalized master point. Normally, the tails of the knots would be going to your harness.

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Anchor rigged with a cordellette.

@Old Smelly, see I used an autolocking biner on the belay device just to make you happy, it's even better than a screwgate.
Happy climbing
Nic

Old Smelly
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Re: Equalising anchors

Postby Old Smelly » Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:41 am

Truly masterful set ups Nic! Nice one on the Autolocker :thumright

That's the real point though - Nic knows exactly what he is doing when he creates these stances so he does not need to wonder if they are ok -so should Ghaz if he learns the right stuff from an expert :wink:
Really, its not that bad...I think it's my shoes...

Nic Le Maitre
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Re: Equalising anchors

Postby Nic Le Maitre » Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:14 am

Ya, it's easy when it's on a table... Bit trickier in the hills, just wanted to illustrate my earlier post - pictures are worth a thousand words.

There is no substitute for experience and good instruction.

BTW if anyone ever sees any gear with that yellow and green striped insulation tape, please let me know, it's probably mine from my stolen kit
Happy climbing
Nic

joshpickering
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Re: Equalising anchors

Postby joshpickering » Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:10 pm

Nic, I have a sneaking suspicion the masterminds behind your gear theft would have removed the tape...

Nic Le Maitre
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Re: Equalising anchors

Postby Nic Le Maitre » Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:31 pm

Maybe, maybe not, after all they weren't after my gear, they stole my bakkie which sadly had my gear locked in the canopy...
Happy climbing
Nic


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