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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:25 pm 
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Real Name: Charles Edelstein
I have posted the RD's for Play Time and Good Time on the Wiki routes. Your best bet is to download the photo topo which is quite high resolution.

Good Time is probably the better route of the two but the 22 pitch albeit only about 4m long of tricky climbing might be a deal breaker for some. However, it is super-safe with gear at your waist all the way at the crux


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:38 pm 
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Real Name: Henk Grobler
The descent has epic written all over it..

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:42 pm 
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Been down the descent more than 10 times.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:16 am 
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This new abseil route is pretty straightforward. Have done it twice now.

Contrast that to DOWN TIME, the abseil Snort and I bolted on the main wall a few years ago: That's an adventurous abseil by comparison. The abseils are a full 60 m, sometimes a bit more. (we only had 9 bolts and 1 drill battery so we needed to stretch out each abseil as much as possible. Plus the BlueWater ropes we were using actually give you a few meters extra, which we only found out after we got some complaints about the length of the abseil pitches). I think someone added an intermediate station somewhere to break up A1. On DOWN TIME you are often hanging in free space with nothing but 200m of air below you. And you are 1,000 m up from the road so the exposure is pretty good. The wall is overhanging at one place, the first person down needs to place a piece or two to get to the next station, otherwise you won't get back on the wall. (The seconder then cleans the gear on the way down). Fun fun fun. Plus, we have our gotten ropes stuck to the point of having to leave them, because there is no way up (Hilton and Bruce to the rescue :thumright ).
And then there was that time that we are all waiting at one the abseil stances, waiting for the "rope free" call from below, when all of a sudden a huge big black frikken SCORPION starts wandering around on the ledge at our feet. Of course we all had our shoes off too. That's a story I will never forget. So I consider DOWN TIME one of the more adventurous climbing things I have ever done. Probably an R-rated abseil, if there was a rating for abseils.
Read the topo to see what I mean: http://www.climbing.co.za/wiki/DOWN_TIME_Rap_Route

This new one should probably be called EASY TIME. It is just a complete walk in the park. 4 easy abseils, none of them very long, lots of time to figure it all out, rather forgiving, feet on rock at most times, really no exposure because you are in this gully. And if you get the ropes stuck when combining A2 and A3 you can climb up again and fix it (Deon had to do that a week ago). The only adventurous part is the use of slings, instead of bolts, and the sling placements all looked good to me.

The topo : http://www.climbing.co.za/wiki/Divine_Time_19_*****

If it weren't for that never-ending walk down.....

- Robert Breyer


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:30 pm 
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Real Name: Henk Grobler
Thank you Robert. :thumleft:

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:21 pm 
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Real Name: Charles Edelstein
Attachment:
Another Fckn Time, Play Time, Divine Time, Time After Time, Good Time and Tea Time Topo low res.jpg
Another Fckn Time, Play Time, Divine Time, Time After Time, Good Time and Tea Time Topo low res.jpg [ 185.09 KiB | Viewed 1474 times ]
Me and my buddies Lulu (Deon) and Bruce styled another amazing line at Yellowwood. In fact the the last pitch which is a 6* 60m pitch is on that steep clean looking triangular face that caught my fancy in the first place many moons ago. So after fashioning 6 new routes I eventually found myself meandering up this face on the most cunning rock you can imagine. I thought Divine Time was improbable but this beats it hands down and only because it is so relatively easy on rock that appears to be destined for bolted routes. The gear is bomber, the moves are all actually no more than 18 or perhaps 19 once you have worked them out. But the position and the intensity probably qualifies the grade 20 or 21.

Yooooohooooo!


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:29 pm 
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Real Name: Henk Grobler
You are cleaning up the place. Despicable name though. How about "Despicable time"?

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 10:15 pm 
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Real Name: Warren Gans
I love that instead of fixing your mistakes you use it to try sell your own ropes, until you stop importing that brand and so make a new route of bolts in an area you profess to be trad only- and you are so proud of all of this that you post it on a forum! Your ethos sucks, but fortunately someone else went up there and fixed your "Adventure" so others can use it. Better, they stay quiet about it, perhaps because they realize that one should not be proud of placing bolts in a trad area?

Continuing with my little rant: why is it that people are happy to add their own routes to the Wiki but deathly silence to posting existing routes to those areas? Chest beating I think. I can forgive Mike Scott et al for not posting in spite of opening the routes because they posted them in guides for people to use. This is the 21st century, and we need this stuff in digital format, rather than hidden on dusty shelves by people scared to share their knowledge for fear of other people enjoying the info they had access to freely!

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 12:00 pm 
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Real Name: Charles Edelstein
.


Last edited by SNORT on Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:09 pm 
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Real Name: Warren Gans
I would rather apologize below a poorly thought out forum post than return to edit it, because editing does a disservice to posts replying to mine- should I then ask you to edit yours in reply to my edit? No, let me leave it, as a testament to thoughts at that time, and in respect of your eloquent and speedy replies.

I did come across too harshly above because you have put in a great deal of effort into that buttress, and this must be respected and applauded. Perhaps the buttress needed a second abseil line, perhaps not, the important part is the fathers of the crag believed it so, in the same ways that the caretakers of Oudtshoorn choose to replace, reinforce or ignore the failing holds of a crumbling wall. The ethoses of areas vary just as the people who frequent them do.

To be honest my problem isn’t the new rap line, it’s the new bolted rap line simply because (in spite of my climbing background) I actually don’t like bolts. I don’t like them symbolically and I don’t like them aesthetically. I say this of sport crags too: future generations will look at the names below routes in RD’s with scorn: “these are the people that scared rock, when alternatives were available to them.”

I think areas- and especially rap lines in areas like Yellowwood- could be shining examples of how anchors should be designed for the long term, and a direction for sport routes to follow. Yellowwood could be an ideal symbolic starting ground for alternatives because of its history of bolts being chopped etc in the pursuit of better climbing ethics.

The thread through is the best god-given piece of pro out there: they are bomb proof and simple to operate, but being god-given they are typically rare and poorly located. With a drill we could play god, and choose to place holes where we see fit, so why don’t we? Why not drill through a prominent corner with a >10mm bit? 10mm or larger gives space for thick tat, or the rope itself- what’s important is a long lasting anchor solution has been installed, one that doesn’t have a sell by date, or look like man posturing to dominate nature- but rather work with what has been given: a simple square cut corner of fine rock.

Who I am with regards to my contribution back to climbing, or opening of new routes - is of little consequence to this conversation, but hopefully my ideas are. However as you’re asking for some you are most welcome to try some of my routes on Lions Head, I think Cash’s King would fit you well. Should that not work for you try the route to its right (Hung My Head), or freeing Fear of Flying on Spring buttress (my weekend project* ticked second go yesterday). But if you can’t do these routes I humbly suggest doing a little more research before making ending remarks like that.

*I will probably have written it up on the wiki by the time you read this post.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:58 am 
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That's much more constructive Warren. The new abseil is only threads! I have always maintained that threads are far better and more elegant than fixed pro. As for your new routes, beware that they will be critiqued if and when I get time to do them. But hopefully constructively.
Far too busy now chasing down the plumbs at YW before Squeaks or someone else gets going. Although there is so much to do there that I probably won't live long enough. I am only really keen on the easy ones. And there are lost of hard eliminates between them


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:15 am 
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FYI, If you do new routes at Wadi Rum, some standard gear is a hand drill and some old rope. Belay stations, lower offs and even runners are created by drilling through the edges of Huecos where they are strong enough. And then threaded with rope which is easily replaceable.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:21 am 
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Real Name: Warren Gans
The fact of the matter is I am a sports climber, and have opened few trad routes, typically single pitch and I suspect this isn't to your taste. I don't expect even you could manage routes like Cash's King, and would put a bottle of whiskey against it. You would enjoy Saturdays' new two/three pitch which is also on Lions, let us figure out a name for it and we will write it up.

I didn't realize the new rap line was threads only, this is great news. Why don't we see sport routes equipped this way?!

My problem with commenting on these sorts of forums is I don't want to say if and what contributions I have made (or if I continue to) for the climbing community because that isn't why I do them: we should feel either obligated or compelled to contribute back to climbing because we take so much from it, and so by stating what one has given back publicly one seems to be making those contributions to score points in arguments. Worse still I know so many people that contribute vastly more than me to climbing with almost no recognition outside of those that see parts of what they do, and stating my humble contributions would imply that what I do is great too, which is not the case.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:30 pm 
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Real Name: Charles Edelstein
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Last edited by SNORT on Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:14 pm 
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I still think it is highly objectionable to use the Americanism "OBLIGATED", even if applied in a humble manner!

WE in South Africa speak the Queens English & thus the term OBLIGED is almost always the correct term to use with that other Americanism relegated to an occasional obscure use in legal documents.

I find this insidious use of incorrect grammar belittles even the greatest of individuals no matter what the grade they climb on sport or trad. It must be stamped out!

Well done to Snort & Warren on the new routes - let's concentrate on the important stuff! :thumright :thumleft: :jocolor: :shock:

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:40 pm 
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Real Name: Warren Gans
Mr Smelly: I typically write my replies in Word rather than directly on to this forum, and so am susceptible to Word imposed errors, sorry.

I must confess, when I do something that needs to be written up I typically just write it up on the wiki rather than opening a forum thread to advertise it: if people need the info they will research.

I do think that my original post was based on information, a bit of memory, connecting dots and less time thinking about my words: I recalled a thread of you defending how much fun you and Robert had bolting the first rap line, and your reluctance to correct it. I knew that Robert was importing those Blue Water ropes at the time, and so I connected those two facts, but over aggressively. Its not that your Ethics "sucked", it was your maths: Down Time is 276m over 6 raps, 50m X 6 is 300m

A small request on this topic: many trad climbers climb on a pair of 50m ropes, and I know from Ram's sales that there are more 50m half ropes out there than 60m, so please install raps accordingly. A wall needs to be over 250m long for the 10m increase to make a difference, and then it would only be one rap.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:09 pm 
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Real Name: Josh Pickering
The whole point of a forum is to share info. I think it's fantastic when new routes are advertised, it gets me excited to try them out. The recent posts about the new routes at Yellowwood have made me keen to come climb in the Cape again, but then the comments on this post have discouraged me because I might bump into some petty Cape climbers. Seriously, re-read your posts before you click submit, otherwise you'll have a whole bunch of strangers thinking you're an ass without having met you (I'm going to ignore this advice and click submit anyway...)
Anyway, I just felt obligated to comment.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:10 am 
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Real Name: Charles Edelstein
Dear Josh, your criticism is constructive and valid.

The new routes at Yellowwood are all fantastic - period. Come and sample them yourself.

There is a "safe" new abseil descent that can be done with 50m ropes. All the routes lend themselves to being done with 50m ropes but one pitch (the second last pitch of Good Time) out of the 45 would require a 60m rope or you would have to simul-climb a few metres or break up the pitch.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:15 am 
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Thanks Warren - I think the REAL issue has been dealt with...

Josh that is just scandalous - I suspect you are deliberately trying to RILE me!! :shock:

I still think the Cape is nice & the climbing there...

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:38 pm 
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Real Name: Henk Grobler
Snort...did you equip those threads with biners?

I agree with Josh, advertising new routes just makes me want to go climb them. So look past the ego's advertising them, and get inspired. Sponsored climbers advertise all the time, with the difference that their's is a real show off as very few climbers can follow them. But hey, their achievements inspire, cause only as far as you dream can you fly.

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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 6:11 am 
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All the threads have biners. And all are equipped with green rope 11mm thick. So Stoncking strong and unobtrusive but easy to find.


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