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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 10:54 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:52 pm
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Location: Stellenbosch
Real Name: Johann Lanz
I was at Paarl yesterday for the first time in a long time. What is the deal with the bolted line left of Sands of Time and right of The Ring Route - I see it still has tat instead of a hanger on the first bolt? I think I recall something on the forum about it. But was surprised that the tat and lack of hanger are still there after a few years.

Then there is also a bolted line that I haven't seen before directly below the second pitch of The Scorched Earth (so left of its written up first pitch). Details anyone - grade etc?


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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 7:54 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 1:52 pm
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I saw it too as I was also there yesterday for the first time in a long time.
looks well bolted and it looks hard!


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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 8:37 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:25 am
Posts: 16
Real Name: hermann
I know who bolted that line... :afro:

Better ask Niel (Jimmy) Mostert of the Paarl climbing guide. He also knows who bolted it =)


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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 10:59 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:21 am
Posts: 268
Real Name: Henk Grobler
Line below Scorched Earth was opened by Louis Seyfried @ 20

_________________
You may still be here tomorrow, but your dreams may not. Cat Stevens


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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 11:16 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 7:13 pm
Posts: 565
johannlanz wrote:
I was at Paarl yesterday for the first time in a long time. What is the deal with the bolted line left of Sands of Time and right of The Ring Route - I see it still has tat instead of a hanger on the first bolt? I think I recall something on the forum about it. But was surprised that the tat and lack of hanger are still there after a few years.

Then there is also a bolted line that I haven't seen before directly below the second pitch of The Scorched Earth (so left of its written up first pitch). Details anyone - grade etc?


The line between Sands and the Ring Route is a route I bolted.
I have since given the route to my brother who will be back in SA in a month or two to open it, so stay off it for now.


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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 11:44 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:32 pm
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Location: Cape Town
Real Name: Willem Boshoff
do you really think it is fair to lay exclusive claim to a piece of rock face for more than "a couple of years"?


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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 12:06 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 7:13 pm
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mokganjetsi wrote:
do you really think it is fair to lay exclusive claim to a piece of rock face for more than "a couple of years"?


Which is why I have given the route to Scott.
Unless you want to pay me for the 3 pitches of bolts and time, and then it's yours.

Besides, it's not like all and sundry have been lining up to bolt at Paarl over the years, so it's not like it's taking up precious space at crag a limited for space. There are plenty of new lines to be bolted at Paarl if you're willing to put in the work, but most don't seem too keen. This is Paarl not the Hole or Silvermine. A line standing closed there takes up hardly any space.


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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 2:17 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:32 pm
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Location: Cape Town
Real Name: Willem Boshoff
haha no - i'm sure the route is way out of my league

what confounds me though is the value attached to getting the FA. surely if one cannot send a route in a few years you could make it an open project, and ask others to respect whatever name you chose for it. what is it to you if somebody else (other than your brother) gets the FA? do you lose anything in the process?

sorry - not trying to be difficult here - i honestly just don't get it. in my books bolting a route gives you the pleasure off:
- enjoying the creative experience of scoping, cleaning and bolting a line
- some reasonable time to get the FA & hence guidebook immortality
- contributing something to climbing in SA
and in this context "owning" a line for years seems excessive to me. (i have not bolted a multi-pitch line though; so might change my tune if it ever happens :pirat: )

your comments on paarl in particular makes sense; but then some lines are better than others - the idea of making a good line off-limits for years again does not seem right to me.

i'm not putting this against you personally - it is common practice after all - but in this context i would highlight somebody like andrew pedley's attitude as exemplary. he gave up the stellar lines of both the WOW Prow & Boven; and for that I tip my hat :thumleft:


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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 2:39 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 7:13 pm
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To be honest the line had been forgotten for some time. I haven't been climbing in a while and so have given the route away.
I have also given away another single pitch route recently at Paarl, a superb 5 star route; one overseas climber commented that it was in his top 5 routes of all time, now letting that go was tough to do.

Try bolting something similar sometime and you will understand why it's hard to let go of such routes.
It is all of those things combined, the time, the effort, the f**king cleaning, the money, the uniqueness of the route, all play a role in one wanting to hold onto the route for oneself. And with someone like me for whom new routing drives my climbing, well that just adds onto it even more.


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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 8:56 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:52 pm
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Location: Stellenbosch
Real Name: Johann Lanz
Thanks for the info. Stu, I can respect your wanting to hold onto the route, although I agree with mokganjetsi that several years seems like a long time. Any idea when the route may be opened, by your brother or whoever?

And, inquisitive to know, what is the 5 star single pitch route to which you refer?


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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 10:00 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 7:13 pm
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johannlanz wrote:
Thanks for the info. Stu, I can respect your wanting to hold onto the route, although I agree with mokganjetsi that several years seems like a long time. Any idea when the route may be opened, by your brother or whoever?

And, inquisitive to know, what is the 5 star single pitch route to which you refer?

Yeah my brother returns to SA in a month or two, and will open the route then.

Just right (like 1m) of Scorched Earth are two new long single pitch routes.
The right hand one is called The Outlaw Josey Wales, 24 (10B,C) and the left hand side one is called Hang 'em High, 23/24 (24B,C), both 40m long and both stunning routes that climb a ton better than they look. The Outlaw Josey Wales is runout though so be very careful on that one - best to toprope it first. I bolted Hang 'em High.


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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 8:24 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:32 pm
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Location: Cape Town
Real Name: Willem Boshoff
thanks for the replies stu! shot man!

keen to go check out those new routes.... 10B for 40m... :pale:


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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 12:43 pm 
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mokganjetsi wrote:
i'm not putting this against you personally - it is common practice after all - but in this context i would highlight somebody like andrew pedley's attitude as exemplary. he gave up the stellar lines of both the WOW Prow & Boven; and for that I tip my hat :thumleft:


...how many of those bolts were sponsored by the MCSA and how many bought stright out of pocket?


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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 9:05 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 4:17 pm
Posts: 79
must say I have sympathy for Stu's position if this is not an instance of hogging a line or inhibiting development (which seems unlikely in the circumstance) as he deserves payback for his initiative and effort.


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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 10:24 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:23 am
Posts: 240
Location: Cape Town
Real Name: Cormac Tooze
Heya,
Really I don't understand you guys, with this 'Conditional Bolting' do it for the love, not for some payback!

1) Was there a bolting permit issued for this route?
2) If so there are a few terms by which the bolter must adhere to with regards of opening the route, (time periods, reapplying after a certain time of the route not being opened and so forth)

Cheers
Cormac


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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2014 12:37 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 7:13 pm
Posts: 565
Paarl Rocks is run by Paarl Municipality.

Cormac, have you bolted a route before?


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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2014 1:31 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:23 am
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Location: Cape Town
Real Name: Cormac Tooze
Stu wrote:
Paarl Rocks is run by Paarl Municipality.

Cormac, have you bolted a route before?


I can't speak for Paarl municipality, but the MCSA (rock climbing sub-committee) has strict guidelines for bolting in TMNP and CapeNature managed area's.

Yes, 2 in Truitjieskraal
I helped bolt a multi-pitch 'at the place we are not supposed to talk about' goes at old school 25 and 9/10 long pitches in total.
Plus re-bolted about 20-25 ARF routes in Cape Peninsula.


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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2014 3:13 pm 
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Xenomorph wrote:
I can't speak for Paarl municipality, but the MCSA (rock climbing sub-committee) has strict guidelines for bolting in TMNP and CapeNature managed area's.

Yes, 2 in Truitjieskraal
I helped bolt a multi-pitch 'at the place we are not supposed to talk about' goes at old school 25 and 9/10 long pitches in total.
Plus re-bolted about 20-25 ARF routes in Cape Peninsula.


Paarl is not run by TMNP or Cape Nature so the guidelines don't apply.

So you would be so willing to simply give away that multipitch line you bolted to someone else if you didn't have the time to climb it?
Plus there's the small amount of R3 000 I spent on the line; your wallet is mighty large if that is deemed small change and simply given away (which has been done by the way).


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