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 Post subject: outa hand
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 9:11 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:18 am
Posts: 8
hey all u guys!
This forum topic is not about being ripped off in stores and stuff - please - suppliers / sponsors - do not explain your economical logistics- we trust you it is hard- it is hard for me to wiz up bucks for a new pair of shoes , new rope new set of nuts, backpack etc- we appreciate your efforts in general- do not think we are as dum as not to understand your commitment to the cause.

The whole thing is not about getting stuff for free and making free movies for the red bull and standard bank sponsorships instead-

the whole story is simply about really weak performance from the organizers or sponsors side when it came to putting the prizes together for this years rally.
If it is so hard for you then in order to cheat the system - start a rock climbing prizes bank box today and put in a little every week from now on so when the comp as awesome as boven rally comes you dont throw at us bits and bobs and 3 fat letters on how tough it is out there so take it or leave it - and instead shine out as a sponsor who puts in the dedication- to the sport that i love - because frankly speaking the way i view montrail now is as a brand who is so fragmented within the market that they cant really do a good enough job in my frigging event but yet all the advertising and marketing is there for you in place and for me to drool after hard days climbing at a sponsored comp - wats up with u guys?

C'mon no 1 wants anything for free- just honour the fact that participants or climbers are also people who work hard and pay a LOT to be involved- who train hard and use your products to get there- who spend their money on your stuff when standing in the shop- deciding...

so far all i see is banners and skimpy prizes and fat explanation letters to the public-at a comp where everyone put in a lot of effort to be there and perform and make the comp a really good one - pitty you all-
that is weak sponsors - organisers

thats all
back at ya

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 Post subject: 2c worth....
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 2:08 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2005 11:59 am
Posts: 132
Location: Pretoria / Johannesburg
Real Name: Andrew Blanche
I was going to add my few cents worth till Megawatt put it so nicely.
As for the guests on the board, nudge, nudge - unless you have something of real worth to add... maybe its time we heard the pitter patter of your tiny feet... because clearly you did not score a pair of shoes!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 3:38 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:57 am
Posts: 29
Real Name: Christo Snyman
Hi Guys

Come on guys, this is a bit harsh!

\"because frankly speaking the way i view montrail now is as a brand who is so fragmented within the market that they cant really do a good enough job in my frigging event but yet all the advertising and marketing is there for you in place and for me to drool after hard days climbing at a sponsored comp - wats up with u guys?\"

Do you really think this is justified?

I spoke in this string purely to give a different perspective, and obviously opened up myself to be the person to attack. have you guys tried to have a look at what adventure inc sponsored before you wrote your mails?

You are forcing me to now defend myself against many accusations that are just thrown around with no regard for the facts!

What did Adventure Inc do at the Roc Rally!
We had banners up for 3 brands Julbo, Montrail & Buff. I do not believe we branded excessively and unlike mentioned we provided prizes in all 3 brands as follows:
Montrail: 3 pairs of shoes Value (between R2200-R2800)
Julbo Eyewear: 2 pairs of sunglasses (Value R2600)
Buff Headwear: 15 Buff's (Value R2100)

Then we also had cost of several thousand to the organizers that helped with the various cost involved in hosting (I'm not going to disclose the amount because this could be viewed as confidential by others).

Adventure Inc also spend a lot of time trying to put together a Boven bus to make it possible for Cape Town climbers to make the event. We heavily subsidized the cost of this bus asking people R750 return (which would included goodie bags from Montrail, Buff, Black diamond and more to value R300+ per person!!! This is for 44 people!). If you do the costing you will see this is VERY substantial! We paid the deposits on this bus, but unfortunately we got very few callers in the end and we could not afford to carry the full R40 000 to take people to the event. The plan was to do the same for Gauteng climbers with Cape Events later this year. A large portion of our budget this year therefore went to making it possible for Cape Climbers to attend the event and therefore helping the growth of the event and the sport. It did not happen, but not because we did not try our damnest to make it happen.

We have supported the Roc Rally every year since it started. We have also given consistant support to virtually EVERY climbing event in this country, and we try and provide as much as we can.

Now guys I am all for being diplomatic and taking abuse from people when it is deserved, but this is not cool! There are many other claims made that I am not even going to bother to address.

We are not a large company, we spend much of our hard earned cash and time to help the industry and yes we do want some exposure. This is still a business and if we don't survive then everyone will have to buy the cheap REI gear.

I'm curious to see if there were in fact people happy with the event and what was done to help?

Be fair in your judgements and I promise you we will sit up and listen and make sure that we get right what we got wrong last time.

Christo


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 6:43 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 9:28 pm
Posts: 236
Everyone has the right to opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.


Last edited by guest on Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:30 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 3:32 pm
Posts: 67
Hi Chris,

I thought the prizes were cool - and loved the fact that so many teams this year walked away with loot (men's, women's and mixed etc)! I havent heard these complaints anywhere but here, and many climbers I have spoken to think this is just silly.

The Rally was a total blast - and am looking forward to possibly hopping on your bus down to Montagu...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 3:10 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2006 6:01 pm
Posts: 264
Location: JHB
Chris, looking at this string I think if started selling (or at least renting) soap boxes you would satisfy some people here, instead of discussing an issue and trying to breed a positive outcome it becomes a free place for anyone to vent unfocused pent up frustration.

It makes sense that importing direct is usually cheaper, the time involved in arranging the purchase etc is free of charge and we dont have any profit motive, we do it for the love of it, using money we earn from our daily profit motive.

Climbing gear dealers are allowed to make a profit, otherwise they wouldnt exist, they have admin and overheads to look after. That said no-one likes being ripped off, so buying from the cheapest provider (or importing) is all you can do, this is how you create competition and bring done prices

THESE ARE ALL PATHETICALLY OBVIOUS PRINCIPLES BUT WE ARE FORGETTING THEM

So yes the dealers should be put in effort at the competitions (I dont know but I think they do) and yes they should hand out nice prizes on the principal that they are advertising (although prizes at a rock rally hardly increases their potential market everyone is buying from them already)

So we are left with what do you want? Do you want recognition for your efforts (a first place etc - a medal will do?) or do you want a lucky packet to take home? Why are you actually there climbing - if you are there to enjoy it then enjoy it, that is why the event is put together not so that a couple of people get to go home with a shiny cam? If you are not happy with this get yourself sponsorhip and become a pro.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:11 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 11:02 pm
Posts: 19
Captain Haddock stole my avatar!!!

No fair, I stole it first :evil:

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 Post subject: hey chris
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:44 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:18 am
Posts: 8
Gees - i really appreciate your stance Chris in this string of folly - right. You defend your company and all with all your might and strength.
To repeat the whole point of my post is not to attack YOU and Adventure inc. hey you did your maths and you put in your bit, sure thanx ok - good stuff - the original posting was - thanx to those that put in the basket - right. why are you so worked up about supposed accusations- hey - i know your prizes were expensive- i do not want to attack you and your product- sure you were involved we understand - well done - thanx a lot man - cool - lets cool off a bit here- Adventure inc - u should be the representative of the industry or the sponsor s' association which puts into comps- My gosh- the ferocity with which you cover your products it seems like you were the only one and single sponsor involved at the rally. MAybe that precisely describes the point i am trying to make .

There is one sponsor who cares and within his capability he struggles to justify going into an event like that and fights his way through criticisms and \"accusations\". I see it precisely like that- forget the weird nasty complaints from the forum rats about yourself and the way you run your business for a sec - i frankly speaking- do not care about the way all of that happens prior to the comp and all- its your business. We all get involved in the industry to this extent or the other- i have a vague idea how much a retail store can pull out in a month - i have a vague idea how much advertising influences sales in south africa and how much it costs to organise event and all that.
Unfortunately for climbers in SA you are a small operator and you can not satisfy all the events with exorbitant prizes- sure -understood- fortunately you are not the only sponsor , manufacturer in this country who is keen and who has pulled into the advertising bandwagon of the Boven rally campground- this year...
this shows to me the attitude of the industry - like i said- maybe it is time to take the rally to the next level - instead of having sponsors throwing stuff at a rally- and scoring campsite space and flooding silly climbing free spirited youngsters with tons lekka stickers and one bottle of water per team and a resin grip each and then ask for it back(????? whatever)- you put in with accordance how much coverage you want and how capable your company is in terms of what you want to advertise- If you save bucks on making tons of banners and put in commitment to the prizes which are more appreciated than subliminal advertising in the form of 35 free stickers and flyers and trippy banners all over the show and such stuff- if you want to advertise big , you put in big - in otherwords- if you sorting out the first prize - sort it out big - or if you only have little then organisers put in the prizes accordingly so that the advertising suits the prizes, positions teams scored in the comp and the importance of the industry leaders in the comp- Nuff said - is the worst t-shirt brand EVER and they had such a kief biiiiiig banner for making t-shirts which no one can wear! Black Diamond was allover the show- no prizes there- CApe storm was there on the \"dankie tannie\" bags and wait a minute was there cape storm product inside??? you know the answer....
Drifters had a massive banner on their tent - sneaky- well i guess all the jhb climbers know where to go to buy their gear now - did i hear drifter in the list of sponsored prizes????
What did you guys spend all the cash on if so many advertisers/ sponsors were there and the phacilities were below standard and the prizes were all but not quite up to what advertising left us to believe
Chris --the bus didn't happen so lets not take the credit for something that didnt happen -right- appreciated anyways- you see you guys will say stuff like - Black diamond and Montrail were going to do a bus for only R750 BUT for 44 people ---- c mon---- of course you wont have 44 people going from cape town to jhb and back on the same shedule--but ho ho ----- you still get the typical coverage of a victimised sponsor ---- it was the climbers who didnt show the support---- i think that sucks---- organise smaller bus if you want to advertise-- up the price , see it through and take the credit otherwise it is the sponsors who didnt commit and shame to Bd And others who failed at the \"mega-bus tour idea\" to Boven --- ha ha ha ha ha

Thats what im talking about- i do not want to attack you Chris - job well done to you-- i still feel like climbers are percieved as the guys who will be happy with whatever is thrown their way but hey - they still got to pay in to cover the costs because in rsa it just isnt big enough to support at a scale as in the states or whatever... we still pay for your product and go to advertised venues like debos ( advertised there too but no involvement in the prizes - c'mon waz up with you de bos????- throw us a bone)
MAybe it is precisely the time to review the methods with which things are done in South african climbing industry

I hope i am bringing my point across. i do not mean you silly vulgarisms or harm to the way you run your business- In fact all of the sponsors did what they could - yeah- sure- please do not take us / participated climbers for silly fools when you put a comp like this together and make a BIG hype around it and then throw in last minute \"morsels\" at silly youngsters---- organisers please get the pecking order straight and sort out your advertising space right - it is your business afterall.
Climbers- yeah - some say nothing , some are happy some are shocked- well - thats life--- there will always be well mixed scope of opinions , so to those who think you know it all because you climb only to improve and test your mind and body and all that sftuff and dont care about the way events are finalized-cool- carry on doing good job - your point of view isn reflecting everyone -elses- right????
Enjoy yourselves and see you next year- we see what happens...
thanx for listening...

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 Post subject: continuum...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:47 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:18 am
Posts: 8
c mon---- of course you wont have 44 people going from cape town to jhb and back on the same shedule--but ho ho ----- you still get the typical coverage of a victimised sponsor ---- it was the climbers who didnt show the support---- i think that sucks---- organise smaller bus if you want to advertise-- up the price , see it through and take the credit otherwise it is the sponsors who didnt commit and shame to Bd And others who failed at the \"mega-bus tour idea\" to Boven --- ha ha ha ha ha

Thats what im talking about- i do not want to attack you Chris - job well done to you-- i still feel like climbers are percieved as the guys who will be happy with whatever is thrown their way but hey - they still got to pay in to cover the costs because in rsa it just isnt big enough to support at a scale as in the states or whatever... we still pay for your product and go to advertised venues like debos ( advertised there too but no involvement in the prizes - c'mon waz up with you de bos????- throw us a bone)
MAybe it is precisely the time to review the methods with which things are done in South african climbing industry

I hope i am bringing my point across. i do not mean you silly vulgarisms or harm to the way you run your business- In fact all of the sponsors did what they could - yeah- sure- please do not take us / participated climbers for silly fools when you put a comp like this together and make a BIG hype around it and then throw in last minute \"morsels\" at silly youngsters---- organisers please get the pecking order straight and sort out your advertising space right - it is your business afterall.
Climbers- yeah - some say nothing , some are happy some are shocked- well - thats life--- there will always be well mixed scope of opinions , so to those who think you know it all because you climb only to improve and test your mind and body and all that sftuff and dont care about the way events are finalized-cool- carry on doing good job - your point of view isn reflecting everyone -elses- right????
Enjoy yourselves and see you next year- we see what happens...
thanx for listening...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 1:27 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 9:28 pm
Posts: 236
Everyone has the right to opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.


Last edited by guest on Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:39 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 3:35 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2006 1:57 pm
Posts: 14
Location: Tokai, Cape Town
Real Name: Simon Bernhardt
No reason to get aggressive, negative or abusive. I was just passing on facts as opossed to trying to guess manufacturing costs of the prizes that the competiter would not be able to relate to anyway. That would be why all comps local and throughout europe use a retail price as a \"guide\" for prizes.( But that might just be stating the obvious for a guru like yourself.) On a more constructive note I ask the same question again with the aim of hopefully finding a solution.
Would competitors prefer lots of small prizes so almost everyone gets something or a few large value prizes for the elite few?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 3:50 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2006 6:01 pm
Posts: 264
Location: JHB
I have never taken part in a comp but here is my two cents:

Decent T shirts (meaning cool logo's and good material) for taking part as well as a medal (ABSA relay style - their medals are decent not the the shirts), trophies for the top 5 or top 10 places. To me that is what the organiser of the event should organise as part of the entry fee.

Then retailers can add their bit on top of that, gift vouchers would probably be best because not everyone wants a nice shiny cam. This would be more of a bonus and would be an advertising cost to them - cheap gift bad impression, decent gift good advertising - their decision.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 1:11 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:57 am
Posts: 29
Real Name: Christo Snyman
Hi Mark

Thanks some real feedback. You make a good point and I will keep it in mind for future events.

In the meantime anyone keen on a R100 Montrail voucher, email me christo@adventureinc.co.za, with your name, postal address and closest stockist. We will then get some vouchers to you.

Regards
Christo


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:40 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:01 pm
Posts: 24
Hah Guest you may be on Planet earth but you are certainly not from around here. :lol: Certainly a criticism from you must mean one is doing something right! 8) I would go so far as to say that the acid comments that come spilling out of your own inner bitterness almost recommend your supposed victim to everyone who reads this forum. Of course you do make the point that you are not out there climbing but rather spilling your frustration & hate out on the readers of the forum who are not currently climbing (probably because they are at work, & not just some horrid little frustated troglodyte who sits venting at all & sundry like you).

On the topic (for those who care) I also thought the sponsors were a bit strangely represented at the rally, as their banners were there but little other input was made. I also believe the Drifters team were entitled to put banners on their tent, advertising their team identity. Possibly more of the supposed sponsors should think of sponsoring teams, rather then throwing around stickers. At least everyone knows where the money went for a sponsored team...probably not into hiring the best climbers in this case.

As for Guest, naturally I do not expect you to take any of this well & await you well considered & logical argument in return. In the meantime we will take your own little moniker & turn it around on you: Don't be surprised if we don't care what you say either. Cause believe me I don't!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 1:17 pm 
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Everyone has the right to opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.


Last edited by guest on Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Sponsor opinion
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 5:38 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 10:54 pm
Posts: 290
Real Name: CityROCK
post deleted.


Last edited by robertbreyer on Thu Oct 26, 2006 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: exactly my point
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 7:07 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:18 am
Posts: 8
there you are! thats what i'm talking about!

Robert just said exactly what my whole point was being made around!

Maybe it is the organisers then (ie Gustav en co) - hey basic courtesy is in place if you get stuff thrown in from the organisers part- but maybe if you had to actually toil to get to that advertising space then it would be more on the basis of \" gee - we didn't have to recieve thank yous for our offerings because we actually got our moneys worth through advertising\"

Just to clear the point i noticed that Marks and Alards didnt win a pair of shoes - thats how swaak the prize for the winning efforts seemed to in comparison with the hype and pump of the previous years and other events.
I tell you why you are not attracting new blood - specifically by attitude of a martyr victim - we didnt get the thank you note for our stuff so we wont bother next year- and guess what the competitive youngsters gonna
do- they will take up mountainbiking challenges and cross country challenges where the sponsors actually outfit the teams and have loads of cool prizes because that what a makes a comp a cool one.

Just if you dont know to me it seemed like the leading teams in the rally worked flipping hard to achieve their \" pair of shoes\" - which they didnt get - and all those who did their best were left standing with a fat bill of 350 rand entry fee and R100 camping for kampsite with facilities below standard- like a bunch of tools inamongst lekker banners.

your attitude sucks - do you see my point????

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 9:23 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:09 am
Posts: 434
\"organisers, stuff thrown, that advertising space, got our moneys worth through advertising, win a pair of shoes, winning efforts, hype and pump, competitive youngsters, ,the sponsors actually outfit the teams and have loads of cool prizes ,350 rand entry fee, R100 camping AND attitude\"

Is this what climbing is about? Rather fewer climbers than this bollocks. Keep it pure.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 9:31 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2006 6:01 pm
Posts: 264
Location: JHB
I guess it comes down to the individual opinion, I dont know but I dont believe the reason Alard goes out there is to go get a new pair of shoes, or whatever the prize is, I think he goes out there for the challenge - to see how well he can do in the comp.

Have a look at other sports like you say adventure racing is very popular most people know they are not going to win, but they get a kick out of taking part. Motor racing in SA - plenty guys do this, they put in huge money to WIN and all they get is a plastic trophy.

My opinion is people take part to win and achieve they dont take part because of the prize (unless we start with some serious prizes - eg survivor - in this instance people arent following their interest they are training in what ever ability is needed to win the money - it does not promote the sport it promotes the prize.)

Most people are not going to win prizes, if you want to attract people you need to make the event cool, something that people want to attend even if they dont win - think carnival, sky divers, etc etc.


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 Post subject: 4 peaks challenge
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 4:17 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 1:56 pm
Posts: 23
last year i took part in the 4 peaks challenge. It is not climbing, but some fairly offtrail stuff. What was interesting is that the winners got next to nothing. I think it may have been some medals and maybe a night at the lodge.

This year i wanted to compete but was slack with my entry and got an email from the organisers saying that 2 months before the event they were full up and no bribes (even vast quantities of biltong (this is the freestate)) would get one in.

That's something like 140 people running around for a couple of hours. No sponsors, no prizes - 100% full. How many thousands of people do the comrades and only a couple get prizes, the 94.7, the Argus.

95% of the people are not there to win. The are there for the vibe and fun, and pitting themselves against themselves and their buddies.

Think about it.


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