DOGS AT THE CRAG AND CAMP SITE

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PeterHS
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Real Name: Peter Hedley-Smith
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Re: DOGS AT THE CRAG AND CAMP SITE

Postby PeterHS » Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:18 pm

There's always a time and a place - and absolutes are not always the perfect solution for all.

When I am belaying and climbing I need my full concentration. I seek the same for my climbing partner/s too. The more concentration I have, the safer for lead and belayer. Therefore, anything that reduces that concentration - whether dog, adult, child, mobile phones or other etc - is a risk to be considered and decision needed whether the added risk is acceptable or not.

I like dogs and I like families and I like people. I can see both sides of the argument. Balance and common courtesy are needed.

Ultimately, it is my call. If I don't wish to climb where there are dogs then I do not need necessarily to go there. In extremis, there's nothing to stop me walking away from a crag if there's an annoying hound. Annoying it could be but I'd rather do that than risk an unplanned incident.

We just all need to be aware of each other. Speak up politely if we have an issue - and climb safely.

Ciao and woof,

Peter
Last edited by PeterHS on Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

deSouzaFrank
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Re: DOGS AT THE CRAG AND CAMP SITE

Postby deSouzaFrank » Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:05 pm

Old smelly obviously smoking is a shitty habit and completely my choice but when you bring your dog, that YOU have deemed safe for crag sharing,to the crag where I (someone scared and not all that fond of dogs) am climbing,you are making me decide to either pack up and move somewhere else or stay and be nervous until you decide to move on. Now if I had to light a smoke right next to you, shoulder to shoulder, whilst you are belaying? Wouldn't this then be comparable to you forcing your dogs company on me?

Chakan
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Re: DOGS AT THE CRAG AND CAMP SITE

Postby Chakan » Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:30 pm

Put your dog on a lead. It's your responsibility to look after your dog, period. If you don't want to have to attend to your dog while you're climbing or walking around the crag or chatting with your friends then don't bring them. Your dog should be constantly by your side when you are at the crag, if you don't want that then leave the dog at home.

lee123
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Re: DOGS AT THE CRAG AND CAMP SITE

Postby lee123 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:36 pm

I don't see how someone who smokes at a crag can think they have the higher ground here though, unless it is on private land, as smoking in public places is illegal, second hand smoke is harmful to others and can cause cancer (https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/tobacco/second-hand-smoke-fact-sheet), and can start a wildfire which can also be deadly. Someone smoking at a crag is no better than someone who doesn't supervise their dogs.

Baguette
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Real Name: Margaux

Re: DOGS AT THE CRAG AND CAMP SITE

Postby Baguette » Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:05 pm

Being bitten by a dog is, unarguably, a regrettable experience and I feel sorry for David’s girlfriend.

I was tempted to reply to this post the day it was posted and decided there was no point because in the end, it’s like most ‘Hot’ topics, if humans will be clever enough, well, the USA would not have Trump as president, no bombs would have exploded in Paris, Zuma would have been convicted long time ago and badly trained dogs would not be seen at crags.

Yet we all know this is not how the story goes and now I feel I should add it’s important not to jump to general conclusions…

So I am a recent dog owner, Mica is my first dog ever. I am sure some of you have already bumped into us…
I used to be quite scared of dogs. Before having Mica, I have always dislike dogs eating my food or walking on my rope when out at a crag. For these exact reasons, I have done my best to train my dog not to upset anyone at the crag, on the contrary, I think she brings a positive vibe. Mica has joined me at crags since the first week I have had her. I taught her not to step on a rope, not to put a foot on a crash-pad and not to sniff human food. As I am a biologist, I have also taught her to be friendly to other animals (including humans). I must admit I have failed with cats. Mica knows that climbing time is no play time, she enjoys getting cuddled or relaxing at the crag. She lays and rests in the shade most of the time. She may wine briefly when she does not see me anymore on a route. She may bark briefly when people approach as I taught her to do so for my own safety. Yet, I have also taught her to stop when I say,” it’s ok…”. YES, Mokganjetsi is right, I do feel much safer to go exploring the mountain with her and I do not think I would be able to go bouldering Red Hill by myself if she was not with me.

IMPORTANTLY, I have taken time to train my dog to be a crag dog/beach dog/festival dog/camping dog because she is my companion (and this next bit is for Warren G), I share my lifestyle with her. If one cannot commit to this, then do not own a dog, simple. A dog who does not share the life of his/her owner is ensured to end up with the label 'PsychoDogs', the ones who disobey, bit people, are unfriendly to other dogs and bark for no reason at any time of the day or night… The right place for a dog is with its owner and the right behaviour for an owner is to train the dog so that she/he behaves appropriately at places where the owner goes. I have chosen the breed of my dog according to my lifestyle, Mica needs a lot of activity. Yet if I would be more the indoor style, maybe I would have got one of those lap dogs and teach my dog to stay on my laps.

So please, I agree with “OldSmelly”, rather blame the human for not having trained his dog and avoid being the not so clever human by making general conclusions (Lining up with Peter). And let’s keep the debate of whether there is a heaven for dogs another time.

deSouzaFrank
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Re: DOGS AT THE CRAG AND CAMP SITE

Postby deSouzaFrank » Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:27 pm

lee123 wrote:I don't see how someone who smokes at a crag can think they have the higher ground here though, unless it is on private land, as smoking in public places is illegal, second hand smoke is harmful to others and can cause cancer (https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/tobacco/second-hand-smoke-fact-sheet), and can start a wildfire which can also be deadly. Someone smoking at a crag is no better than someone who doesn't supervise their dogs.


Lee123. Maybe it's my poor use of English or you're on another planet. I most definitely don't see myself on higher ground as a smoker. I never smoke when any one is around. My point was that me smoking close to people and not leaving them a choice but to inhale my second hand smoke is exactly the same as a dog owner exposing me to the threat of being bitten or mauled because I retaliated.

Warren G
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Re: DOGS AT THE CRAG AND CAMP SITE

Postby Warren G » Thu Feb 16, 2017 6:51 pm

It is clear from this thread that many people oppose having dogs at crags, and enough of them are upset by it to voice their grievances publicly. I am not an anti-dog person (I think they are wonderful addition to one's life), but that doesn't mean I would take Muttley to every public event I attend.

I also concede that there should be crags that one can take one's dog to, and there should be dog free crags. But I also believe that crag attending dogs and owners should be willing to vacate the crag should people take offence to their company (again, depending on the crag's rules). I am not convinced that having a dog at a crag is safer than not, nor am I convinced that having a hand gun makes a household safer, but at least I can support the second part of that statement with stats, while for the former part I will have to wait for more events like David's Girlfriend before substantiating that argument further.
Sandbagging is a dirty game

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Nic Le Maitre
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Re: DOGS AT THE CRAG AND CAMP SITE

Postby Nic Le Maitre » Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:34 am

Warren G wrote:nor am I convinced that having a hand gun makes a household safer, but at least I can support the second part of that statement with stats.


Slight divergence here, owning a gun does not make you safer: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24054955 and http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/ab ... 008.143099

If you want the papers, rather than just the abstract, pm me and I'll send them through
Happy climbing
Nic

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proze
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Re: DOGS AT THE CRAG AND CAMP SITE

Postby proze » Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:30 pm

When someone's woofy kaks at the campsite, walks sand all over my rope bag at the crag and noses through my bag it's so, so cute, isn't it. Watch those owners lose their shit fast if I or my kids were to do any of those things. :thumleft:

ColinCrab
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Re: DOGS AT THE CRAG AND CAMP SITE

Postby ColinCrab » Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:56 pm

To be fair and non-sexist, I think there are bitches to blame as well. 8)

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henkg
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Re: DOGS AT THE CRAG AND CAMP SITE

Postby henkg » Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:27 pm

ColinCrab wrote:To be fair and non-sexist, I think there are bitches to blame as well. 8)

cracks me up :lol:
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