I was reminded, while climbing at Silvermine yesterday, of this topic. Guy et al. have written about cigarettes and dogs at crags, and hit a nerve with some climbers. I'll add my rant to the smoking issue. Cigarette butts at the crag. If you have to smoke there, at least TAKE YOUR #@! BUTTS AWAY when you leave. What the hell is it with people?? I don't want to climb in your ashtray, f$#@it! There were stompies all over the place; underfoot, stuffed into holes in the rock, on the stones at the base of routes, stubbed out on boulders. What is your problem? Unlike some people, i don't really mind smokers at the crag. I mean, i smoke too. But i take my butts home and thow them away there. Some of my mates smoke too, and they also make the effort not only to keep downwind of others, but also to clean up after themselves. If anyone sees some sonofabith throw their stompie on the ground, politely ask them not to. If they keep doing it, unpolitely show them it's a bad idea - use whatever technique necessary. Ok, rant over. Let's try and keep our crags clean please, and give a little thought to other climbers, and the environment. cheers

I agree who ever throws their butts on the floors should have their butts kicked. I don't smoke but often end up cleaning butts that people left behind, I think that it is our responsability as climbers, in preserving the mountains sometimes we don't only need to worry about our mess but that of others (together with educating the $^%^& who litter) what do you think ? I'm also equally disgusted when people throw banana peels, apple cores or any other item that they claim is bio-degradable. Firstly it looks unsighthly to sit and belay next to a rotting fruite, secondly if we truley want to preserve nature then we shouldn't introduce any foreign material to an established eco-system. The rule of what you take in is what you take out should always apply. End of rant

I agree Brent. I have the additional gripe that I am not a smoker. I remember belaying at the Restaurant and being literally hemmed in by a group of smokers. Very unpleasant. Personally I don't think that smokers should even be smoking at a crag, never mind dumping their buts at the crag.

Sod that you bunch of megalomaniac control freaks! Smokers have rights too. Outdoors is one of the few places people are legally allowed to smoke, and you want to restrict that too. Why dont you just throw the whole concept of civil liberty in the bin? Stompies, like other pieces of trash, sweet wrappers, orange peels etc occasionally get overlooked when people pack up, yet I dont hear anyone ranting on about these other bits of litter. Stop whining like a bunch of wussys and just pick up trash when you see it, climbers (including the smoking variety) are still one of the most responsible and clean user groups to frequent nature. As for secondary smoke - go stand somewhere else if it bothers you! No-ones forcing to inhale! Pathetic whiners make me sick I will be sure to blow a fat cloud of pipe smoke your way next time we meet at the crag!!!

You can't be serious man. That's one thing I hate, it's about consideration for other people, manners. You have some you will respect other peoples space, if not I'll get up in your face!!

Only half serious Stu! But consideration for the needs of others goes both ways, so I'll try not to blow smoke up anyones... if they promise not to whinge about secondary smoke and the odd stompie. Seriously tho suggesting we shouldnt smoke at crags is complete and utter crap! As for picking up others litter goes just do it and stop moaning, I have carted away 5 black dustbin bags (! litteraly!) full of litter left by hikers and day walkers at Kalk Bay crags in the last year, which although a pain to have to bother with did not cause me to go on the rampage. A few stompies is f-all! However I do agree that we should keep the crags clean, but sometimes bits get forgotten and left behind. I just pick up whatever litter I come across, and if I see people blatantly dumping stuff calmly point out the error of their ways. Litter is a cause for concern but it doesnt warrant getting heated up over.

Sorry to say but anyone who smokes is pretty dumb.
How can a smoker care about nature when they don't even care about their own health? Smoking sucks, give up and all this goes away.

Surely Puff is taking the piss. There is a really good reason why smoking has been banned in most places - IT KILLS PEOPLE! That said, I occationally smoke at the crags and boulders, but I make an effort to sit downwind of my mates and I take the butts home. It's called something like common decency or manners. Maybe I should take a piss off the top of Silvermine Crag next time I'm there...

Two weeks ago in Rocklands (a wilderness area) I found tons of butts lying around the boulders - do you really think that Cape Nature Conservation is going to have a sense of humour about this?

Wake up - you don't own the crags. If you did, would you allow people on your land if their actions indicated that they didn't care about destroying the place????

Cigarette butts are not like other litter - they stink. And that is why there are more of them at the crags than anything else - because smokers don't want their own bags to stink. But guess what? That's no excuse: if you can't take the (considerable) bad side-effects of your habit, why should the rest of us have to? Carry a seal-able packet to put butts into or something, but don't make your problem ours.
And for god's sake, don't stick them into cracks in the rock - it's fucking sacrilege.

Take a look at Chosspile-energy drink bottles, cigarette butts, toilet paper etc. are just a few of the things you can find while trying to spend a day outdoors.

To puff paddy. I can only hope that you are taking the piss. You cannot seriously maintain that you have a right to blow smoke into other peoples faces (or in any direction that results in them sucking in your smoke)? Unbelievable. You may assert your right to smoke - but accept the responsibilities that come with it as well i.e. minimising or negating the negative impact of your smoking. Therefore smoke away from the crag (upwind) and take your buts with you.

I have a right to smoke, and if I want to smoke at a crag, I will.

However, I also have a responsibility to:
- leave the crag in the same state that it was when I arrived
- respect other people's rights

But these are general, inalienable things. I have never (intentionally) left a cigarette butt at a crag, but then again, I've never left litter either. When I'm smoking, I try to be as considerate as possible (i.e. staying downwind etc).

It's really easy to bag on smokers, but there seem to be a lot of hypocrites posting.

_________________
the fresh prince of darkness

This topic always reminds me of some graffitti I once saw:

\"Smoking is your pleasure. The residue of your pleasure is smoke. It gets in my face, in my hair and in my clothes.

My pleasure is beer. The residue of my pleasure is piss. How would you feel if pissed in your your face, your hair, your clothes?\"

brilliant

I am a smoker but I don't smoke at the crag. I leave them in the car and then REALLY enjoy one when we get back. I don't think smoking and climbing go together at all. A bit like smoking while you're on your early morning jog. Also highly inconsiderate to those who don't smoke, and are out having some fresh air. Ciggy butts are disgusting and annoying when left lying around in what should be a pristine wilderness. But then so are softdrink cans and toilet paper. If you see people littering and messing up the crags, hit them on the head with a big rock!

Another residue of Beer is talking bollocks

Dom, nobody is bagging on smokers, they are bagging on inconsiderate smokers who blow smoke in peoples faces and leave stompies lying around. There is a difference! Sounds like you don't fall in that category, so you have nothing to worry about. Wish there were more like you tho!

nuffing wong wiff bollox ...!!!

(':shock:')

i've often wondered this myself! I have smoked weed and climbed for as long as I can remember [I have short term memory problems!]. I normally just dissappear around the corner when I wanna smoke, or I'll smoke one when I'm hanging at the chains. I don't feel that it's ok to just pull out anything that smokes and expect people not to be affected. It's the same as if the night before I ate a huge rotten chilli egg bacon roll and now I'm dropping my foul guts for everyone to enjoy. I've always tought, \"one day some cop/climber is gonna pull a badge on me\", then I remember, this is Africa, the continent of herbal enjoyment! I nearly cuc'd myself tho once at 'boven when this reservist pulled out his gun and badge on us, but, then 10 minutes later he was so goofed that I nearly ufcking arrested him.

Lastly, I don't agree with you that it makes for better climbing[performance wise]. I know for myself, if I have a hard redpoint to do, I never smoke. This is for two reasons. The one is that I find weed numbs certain senses and the body doesn't function with the same sober connectivity[it is after all a schedule 5 drug - in the same class as morphine]. The other reason is that often it's just an excuse for 'chilling' out and comfort zones are never left behind.

Don't get me wrong tho, I'll always smoke and climb, I give a rats ass for the one or two grades less that I climb because of it. I only climb to have fun, and I only smoke to have fun, thus, i can have double the fun by doing both. Just remember tho, that if you are a cigarette smoker, doob toker, farter, incense-burning-sharma-wanna-be or a cologne drenched sandton dick, you have no right to speak to or offend anyone, period. This includes bickering couples, okes who feel the need to shout beta etc.


another thing that freaks me out are people who have no standards of hygene. They think it's ok to goto the crag, have a shit, bring no hand soap, and then climb the routes I wanna do, while leaving a nice trail of e-coli and staf bacteria for me to grip onto. Climbers are supposed to be slightly more aware of certain things.......mmmmm

monkey see monkey do.
Toker maybe you should carry some ant-bacterial spray in your chalk bag and quickly disinfect the grips before you use them. The other day I was halfway up this route and found some baboon poop and dassie pis. Shocking I dare say. Most unhygenic! I left the crags and took a bath in undiluted Detol and then brushed my teeth 6 times and scrubbed my hands 14 times. The world is full of e-coli my friend.