Self Isolation on a Rope on a Mountainside

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TheChris
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Self Isolation on a Rope on a Mountainside

Post by TheChris » Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:51 am

Hey all

In light of our current situation here in SA, what is everyones take on still going outdoor climbing?
Do you think it's safe for one to climb in pairs still?

I have read that the sun and fresh air has a sterilising effect, which means being out on a rock face in the sun and away from people would be an advantage, just don't sneeze down onto your belayer.
The Earth is my Playground

rasmus
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Re: Self Isolation on a Rope on a Mountainside

Post by rasmus » Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:27 pm

I don't think it is mostly a matter of personal safety for most of the people who are able to hang on to a mountainside. Basically the isolation is to protect the healthcare system and the vulnerable. Everyone who is young/healthy must isolate as much as possible for other people's sake, not their own. The "I'm not afraid" machismo you hear from some people is misplaced. That being said, I think it's more or less as safe as ever to climb outside, depending on how intimate a relationship you've got with your belayer ;-)

In all seriousness, I don't think most of our crags are near crowded enough to be considered a risk (as per the guidelines so far), so if you can travel to the mountains without using public transport, I'd say you're good. Planning to head out myself.

mokganjetsi
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Re: Self Isolation on a Rope on a Mountainside

Post by mokganjetsi » Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:47 pm

:mrgreen:
Last edited by mokganjetsi on Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Warren G
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Re: Self Isolation on a Rope on a Mountainside

Post by Warren G » Tue Mar 17, 2020 3:01 pm

It's an amazing time opportunity to explore the quieter areas: open that project, climb that peak, stay in that cave. Climbing is all about self-isolation
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SNORT
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Re: Self Isolation on a Rope on a Mountainside

Post by SNORT » Tue Mar 17, 2020 5:56 pm

There are a couple of pragmatic facts.

1. Most climbers are high risk as vectors because we travel and are mobile. Even if you personally are not very mobile you have a higher risk of contracting the virus without even knowing it merely because you associate with other climbers.
2. If we climb in a gym wer are even a higher risk as a vector because it is impossible to clean the holds never mind anything else. Climbing is all about touching. (That is why we closed CityROCK! It is not so much to protect our staff and customers who are not very likely to get very ill but to prevent us climbers becoming vectors and spreading the disease).
3. Most climbers are likely to get infected, probably 70 % or more unless a vaccine is found.
4. Most climbers are unlikely to get ill or very ill or die from the virus.
5. Climbers are an increased risk to other less healthy, overweight, sickly or older people.
6. If you climb and you smoke, have any respiratory ailment, are very overweight or other significant health issue you should be extremely careful about being around climbers.
7. Upmarket areas are at higher risk at the moment of contracting the virus than lower income areas again because of international travel.
8, You cannot just rock up for a COVID19 test. You have to be referred with a PUI form. This can be downloaded from here.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/x9683wmqlyvc ... 3T8fa?dl=0

For once our climbing life-style is protective to us by keeping us fit and healthy and more robust to combat the virus. But we do probably pose a greater risk to others.

mokganjetsi
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Re: Self Isolation on a Rope on a Mountainside

Post by mokganjetsi » Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:14 am

:mrgreen:
Last edited by mokganjetsi on Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Chris F
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Re: Self Isolation on a Rope on a Mountainside

Post by Chris F » Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:10 pm

Mok, that's won't be enough to guarantee it won't transfer. How can you sanitise a complete rope that has been dragged through the hands of a belayer.

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robertbreyer
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Re: Self Isolation on a Rope on a Mountainside

Post by robertbreyer » Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:19 pm

Interesting article from Climbing Magazine on the subject:

Is it OK to Climb Outside During the Coronavirus Pandemic?

https://www.climbing.com/news/is-it-ok- ... -pandemic/

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Re: Self Isolation on a Rope on a Mountainside

Post by mokganjetsi » Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:27 am

:mrgreen:
Last edited by mokganjetsi on Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

SNORT
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Re: Self Isolation on a Rope on a Mountainside

Post by SNORT » Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:06 am

Ok so here is the Boomer version.

So most climbers are young but they may have boomer parents and grannies 60 years or older and work with people who are older smoke are obese or have HIV or some other health issue.

Most people are projected to get infected one way or another. In South Africa sooner and faster than other countries.

Younger people who are not obese, do not smoke and are fit and healthy will probably be just fine even if they transmit the virus to each other. On the other hand, if they infect older people, people with HIV and Aids (7million in South Africa) etc this will be calamitous.

James Myburgh is the founder and editor of Politicsweb. He has an extraordinary capacity to analyse big problems and shed light on the solutions. In this masterful piece, Myburgh – who has a PhD from Oxford – has applied his mind to the Covid-19 epidemic, in particular government plans to bring it under control. Myburgh undertakes in-depth number crunching and sizes up evidence gleaned from other countries that are in the mist of coronavirus panic. He concludes that a national shutdown will not prevent the inevitable. Covid-19 will spread far and wide, helped by HIV-Aids, TB and social and irresponsible younger South Africans. Ultimately, herd immunity will bring this under control, concludes Myburgh.

https://www.biznews.com/undictated/2020 ... C1X4xA=%3D

We really should only be engaging in activities at least for now that keep the economy going and that keep us fit and healthy. In that regard, although CityROCK and all gyms and sporting facilities are part of the economy and we have people depending on us at present for their livelihood, it is not an essential service right now and hence we closed.

Believe me this is devastating for all of us.

I think, no, I don't think. It is an imperative that we must do everything to delay infection and any debate about whether we can transmit or not through climbing ropes and belay devices s is just disingenuous and pointless. There is an increased risk and that's it. Even bouldering outdoors might be an increased risk albeit low. So wash your hands before you dip into your chalk bag and put on shoes.

Do not do roped climbing anywhere that is popular and only climb with someone you live with. Yellowwood would be a good place to climb if you live with someone who climbs. Just saying!

All people and especially younger people have the responsibility to stop smoking, lose weight if they are overweight exercise and do everything to stay healthy. It really is not that hard. If you don't you could use up a ventilator that someone else may need if you get sick sooner or sicker than you should.

If you behave irresponsibly the economy could collapse and there will be no money for anything like climbing.

What kind of life will that be?

You have a moral ethical and human duty to, at the very least, try and stave off infection as long as possible so that vulnerable people can also have delayed infection and the health services can then hopefully better cope. If you in any way behave irresponsibly you may well be guilty of murder.

There is lots we can do to keep ourselves busy and productive if we have no job to go to. Go clean your pavements where you live for starters so low income workers possibly vulnerable don't have to linger in the area.

Spring clean your home and donate all those clothes you have not worn for a year or two. Winter is near.

If you receive a salary and have secure income continue paying your bills and taxes and send your house help home and pay them. Do your own house work and garden.

Chat daily to your grannies uncles and aunts on the phone and entertain them but stay away.

Think out the box to help others remotely. Post your ideas here or FB.

If you do get infected completely isolate yourself till further info comes available like when one achieves immunity.

Shop online and let couriers leave your dry goods in your garage or where-ever for a few days if that works.

And keep your hands to yourself and off anything you do not need to touch.

Young people of today are much better informed than us boomers were. So think and act Smart

mokganjetsi
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Re: Self Isolation on a Rope on a Mountainside

Post by mokganjetsi » Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:33 pm

SNORT wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:06 am
I think, no, I don't think. It is an imperative that we must do everything to delay infection and any debate about whether we can transmit or not through climbing ropes and belay devices s is just disingenuous and pointless.
you make a good point snort. i will delete my previous posts - agreed we should avoid all unnecessary social contact.

Logic
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Re: Self Isolation on a Rope on a Mountainside

Post by Logic » Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:29 pm

Poignant and instructive words, Snort, that we all should heed, thank you.

Chris F
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Re: Self Isolation on a Rope on a Mountainside

Post by Chris F » Tue Mar 24, 2020 2:47 pm

Thanks Snort.

I can't find a link, but an apprently healthy 48 year old man in Manchester has been hospitalised with this and been on a ventilator. If there was no ventilator available, he may have died or suffered permanent health issues. I don't think any of would like to risk being that guy just to get our fix.

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Justin
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Re: Self Isolation on a Rope on a Mountainside

Post by Justin » Tue Mar 24, 2020 3:26 pm

Off to the side a bit...

Off all the crap & BS I've been put through the last few days, this is among the top 3 informative pieces that I've seen. Video made a 30 year old South African guy who actually has the virus --> https://youtu.be/vU25zBz7Z1I
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XMod
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Re: Self Isolation on a Rope on a Mountainside

Post by XMod » Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:21 am

Shot for sharing the vid link Justin. I'm sure I've met his sister in Kommetjie.

Well all the speculation about how safe it is to go climbing with mates is now a moot point. Stay healthy all, use the (lock)down time to train and get stronk!

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Re: Self Isolation on a Rope on a Mountainside

Post by Chris F » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:55 pm


LeRoux
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Re: Self Isolation on a Rope on a Mountainside

Post by LeRoux » Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:03 pm

I just want to make a quick comment about Dan's video. As a health care practitioner busy preparing for what is going to be the worst pandemic to hit our country in decades, I'm not sure its helpful.
It isn't actually scientific at all. It's looking at his case study of one, which doesn't tell us much. UpToDate has dropped its subscription service in this time of global need, so a summary of the info can be found there. https://www.uptodate.com/contents/coron ... ory_widget

I would just implore everyone to stay home and be safe. Avoid anything that could possibly spread the virus. Thousands will die. As a society it is our responsibility to protect each other and at this moment it means isolating ourselves and not coming into contact with anyone. We need to practice safe distancing and proper hygiene at every contact that is unavoidable (essential activities to life like buying food). If anyone is feeling short of breathe, call for help immediately, but otherwise just stay at home.
Our public health care system in South Africa is already running at 110% on a normal day and it usually doesn't cope. The next few months are going to be intense. We are trying to make more wards, beds and ventilators available. We have stopped all elective care and only do emergencies now as to free up space and hands. We are running drills and making plans. We will fight this thing with all we have.
I hope this gives some insight as to what is happening at a healthcare level and the prep that is going into what is sure to be one of the worst moments in our history.

Hope you and your family stay safe and healthy in this crazy time.
Le Roux

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