TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

For the posting and discussion of Access Issues and Closures for Areas around South Africa.
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Overide
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Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Post by Overide »

Hi guys,

Maybe you can update me on whats happening, Is bouldering still excluded from a level 2 permit? We are wanting to go bouldering in Deer Park but I am struggling to find information on it. We initially wanted to go to Brazil Topside boulder (Silvermine Nature Reserve), but from the website it seems like we would have to fork out around R500 to get a wild card and the level 2 permit.

Any feedback will be greatly appreciated.

Regards,
Richard Tichauer
richardm
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Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Post by richardm »

Hi All
Is there any development/improvement on the Activity Permit situation? Specifically for Lakeside and Silvermine.
Is it still needed? (the SANParks site says yes..)
Is it being policed?
What about foreigners wanting to go climbing once?
Any news or info appreciated.
CTtradder
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Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Post by CTtradder »

We went sport climbing at Lower Silvermine yesterday. While we were at the crag, some rangers came by and asked us for our activity permits. We didn't know we had to have a permit. They told us to go back to the gate and buy a climbing day permit for R25. We tried to argue with them, since we have all had green cards, but they were rather insistent. We didnt have enough money with us and were running out of time, so we decided to pack up and go home.
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GClamp
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Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Post by GClamp »

Amazing!

There has been atleast two muggings at Peers Cave in the last week but all TMNP can do is use their rangers to harass legitimate mountain users.

I am so sick of that organization.
Guardian
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Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Post by Guardian »

We were climbing at Silvermine main on Sunday and a ranger also made one of our group who came in with a Wildcard go back to the gate and pay for an activity permit. Except, they made her pay the full R70 extra.
Swimming in the dam=Normal, Mountain biking on an extensive path network=R70, sitting under cliff face where no one even knows about us except the muggers=R70.
Maybe if they maintained the paths (cut through a burnt tree or two?), or helped with bolts or kept us safe it wouldn't be so bitter...
There is nothing more beautiful than a well dressed alpine butterfly.
mokganjetsi
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Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Post by mokganjetsi »

how can the community engage TMNP on this? Will the MCSA? We maintain both the routes and the paths; they do nothing. We should not be paying for this since our impact is no more than that of hikers. Oh, and we assist with rescues and do a regular clean-up of TM.
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Thermophage
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Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Post by Thermophage »

MCSA has engaged them forbloodyever about this and they don't give a sh1t...
So...get the Activity Permit unfortunately or be prepared to argue with rangers. At least you get free entry to teh park with the Activity Permit, so in that way it is the same as a Wild Card (except that it's only for TMNP).
And yes...i completely agree it's total BS as they do 4kkol for climbing maintenance, especially at the crags...but the bureaucracy there is not going to change anytime soon.
I'm actually surprised you CAN buy day permits for climbing...As far as I am aware this was never previously allowed. So even a complete beginner not knowing whether they will want to become a climber but tagging along would technically have needed a yearly activity permit.
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GClamp
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Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Post by GClamp »

Guardian wrote:We were climbing at Silvermine main on Sunday and a ranger also made one of our group who came in with a Wildcard go back to the gate and pay for an activity permit. Except, they made her pay the full R70 extra.
Swimming in the dam=Normal, Mountain biking on an extensive path network=R70, sitting under cliff face where no one even knows about us except the muggers=R70.
Maybe if they maintained the paths (cut through a burnt tree or two?), or helped with bolts or kept us safe it wouldn't be so bitter...
Was this on the way to main crag? or at main?
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Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Post by mokganjetsi »

I'll just tell them i'm not climbing; just watching / belaying. If they want to watch me watching they are welcome :thumright
NicoVenster
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Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Post by NicoVenster »

For some reason I initially read TMNP as teenage mutant ninja permits.
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Thermophage
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Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Post by Thermophage »

NicoVenster wrote:For some reason I initially read TMNP as teenage mutant ninja permits.
That's probably more accurate than the actual ...
Guardian
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Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Post by Guardian »

GClamp wrote:
Guardian wrote:We were climbing at Silvermine main on Sunday and a ranger also made one of our group who came in with a Wildcard go back to the gate and pay for an activity permit. Except, they made her pay the full R70 extra.
Swimming in the dam=Normal, Mountain biking on an extensive path network=R70, sitting under cliff face where no one even knows about us except the muggers=R70.
Maybe if they maintained the paths (cut through a burnt tree or two?), or helped with bolts or kept us safe it wouldn't be so bitter...
Was this on the way to main crag? or at main?
It was actually at the top car park, the helmets gave it away.
There is nothing more beautiful than a well dressed alpine butterfly.
Jarrett
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Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Post by Jarrett »

I was also surprised to be told at the gate two weeks ago that we needed an activity permit. Activity permits have been in force since 2013, but this was the first time they have ever asked me to show one.

My understanding is that card-carrying MCSA members are exempt from requiring activity permits, or that was at least the MCSA's stance on the matter in 2015. This is based on a previous agreement with them, whether TMNP still honours it now or not.
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proze
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Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Post by proze »

mokganjetsi wrote:I'll just tell them i'm not climbing; just watching / belaying. If they want to watch me watching they are welcome :thumright
This! They can watch us drink coffee and talk kak for as long as they like. :)
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Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Post by Guardian »

Any change in the status of the activity permits for trad climbing?
We were just escorted from the base of our climb on Lions head (Lookout sector) by a (friendly) ranger as we didn't have activity permits.
Apparently, the fine would have been R7500 (2.5k each) if he caught us on the rock.
We didn't fight it. Should we have? First ranger I've ever seen!
We are MCSA members, is the MCSA/TMNP relationship still o.k. ?
There is nothing more beautiful than a well dressed alpine butterfly.
Jasoneye
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Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Post by Jasoneye »

This really sucks! So with an activity permit you are ok? I got stopped at the quarry last weekend. Armed with both an activity permit and a mcsa card.
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Nic Le Maitre
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Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Post by Nic Le Maitre »

Delaney wrote: Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:10 pm Hi All

Just a friendly reminder that the current status of climbing permits in Table Mountain National Park is as follows:

Trad Climbing – requires no activity permit
Sport Climbing – requires an activity permit unless you are a card-carrying MCSA Member
Bouldering – requires no activity permit pending the finalization of the Bouldering EMP

Please be aware of SANParks Rangers requesting spot fines or issuing tickets for failure to produce activity permits. Kindly be respectful to rangers but do not allow yourselves to be bullied by them. Unless and until the legal position changes, the agreement between SANParks and the MCSA is as above.

The MCSA would also like to know every incidence that does occur where a climber is challenged in respect of the above by a SANParks ranger. Please email Delaney on delaney@rockchicks.co.za should this occur so that we can keep a log.



Yours sincerely

Delaney Carpenter – Chairperson of the Rock Climbing Sub-Committee of the MCSA Cape Town Section on behalf of
Brian Lambourne – Chairman of the MCSA Cape Town Section
Quoting Delaney's post to make it more visible

@Guardian: No activity permit for Trad.
Happy climbing
Nic
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Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Post by mokganjetsi »

Guardian wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:09 pm We were just escorted from the base of our climb on Lions head (Lookout sector) by a (friendly) ranger as we didn't have activity permits.
Apparently, the fine would have been R7500 (2.5k each) if he caught us on the rock.
We didn't fight it. Should we have? First ranger I've ever seen!
yass this is annoying! :evil:
i would not have complied with his request; know what your rights and the current arrangement is.
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Thermophage
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Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Post by Thermophage »

OMG don't tell me this is still an ongoing thing.
No Activity Permit for trad has even been necessary. Someone needs to take the "fine" so this can actually hopefully be settled.
The bloody management of TMNP are a bunch of wallies (as I assume the word I want to use won't be liked) who blatantly refuse to actually communicate anything they have agreed to to any of their people actually doing any work on the mountain :puker:
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Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Post by Fats »

After much research and confirmation from SANPARKS, level 2 my activity permit is not applicable to bouldering. There is no maintenance required on boulders. A permit is only required for sports climbing to maintain the areas around climbing. SANPARKS do not have the money to employ additional staff to ensure our security unfortunately (this is something that we have to take up with our government for mismanaging funds yet again.

"Dear Fatima,

You do not need an activity permit for bouldering.

PREPAID TICKETS EXCHANGE/RETURNS ONLY BETWEEN 01-30 NOVEMBER 2016
Yours in Tourism
Description: Description: cid:image001.png@01CEB448.82239CA0
Ashrell Oliphant (Ms)
Administration Officer (Sales)"
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Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Post by mokganjetsi »

i'm happy TMNP is not charging you for bouldering, but i can assure you they do not spend more money maintaining sport crags than for bouldering.
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Thermophage
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Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Post by Thermophage »

Fats wrote: Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:29 pm After much research and confirmation from SANPARKS, level 2 my activity permit is not applicable to bouldering. There is no maintenance required on boulders. A permit is only required for sports climbing to maintain the areas around climbing. SANPARKS do not have the money to employ additional staff to ensure our security unfortunately (this is something that we have to take up with our government for mismanaging funds yet again.

"Dear Fatima,

You do not need an activity permit for bouldering.

PREPAID TICKETS EXCHANGE/RETURNS ONLY BETWEEN 01-30 NOVEMBER 2016
Yours in Tourism
Description: Description: cid:image001.png@01CEB448.82239CA0
Ashrell Oliphant (Ms)
Administration Officer (Sales)"
That's correct. Both bouldering and trad are exempt from needing Activity permits. Although that may change for bouldering at some point...sigh
karlbase
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Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Post by karlbase »

Getting tired of this nonsense... all, please take note of the email I received from SANPARKS today.
It's clear that the Rangers can't distinguish between a trad climber and a kite boarder so sooner or later someone will need to draw the proverbial line in the sand..

Hi Karl

We refer to your email below.
You do not need an activity permit for traditional climbing but one is required for sport climbing.
Staff are required in terms of enforcing permit requirements to ask people to present their permit upon request when anywhere in the park.

We appreciate the frustration you seem to be experiencing. For staff it is not always easy to identify the difference between trad and sport climbing.
Please politely indicate you are a trad climber and don’t need a permit.
We will certainly undertake a refresher session with the staff on the ground

Kind regards

Saskia Marlowe
Hospitality Services, Film and Events Manager
Table Mountain National Park
Tokai Road, Tokai
www.tmnp.co.za
021 712 7471
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justin
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Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Post by justin »

Thanks Karl. It's been an ongoing problem with the guys on the ground not being able to tell climbers and kite boarders apart.

So (to stir the pot a little), what happens if I go trad climbing at Silvermine Main Crag, but don't clip any bolts (or climb rope free/solo/scramble routes)?
By this I'm asking, would it be an idea to suggest to SANParks management that they point out Sport areas and Trad areas to their rangers so that they may better distinguish between the sport vs trad)?

Offroute: Your (general) insurance will cover you for cycling/MTB'ing and going into the mountains without any safety gear (i.e. a rope). But tell them you were rock climbing (with a rope) and (generally speaking) you will not be covered!
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justin
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Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Post by justin »

Someone sent me these pics of signage at Lions Head.

- My understanding is that unless you are clipping bolts (sport climbing) we do not need activity permits?

- My understanding is that you can show/use your MCSA card in place of an activity permit?

The signage below indicates that you need an activity permit to trad climb!! ?
Attachments
lions head climbing signage permits
lions head climbing signage permits
lions head climbing activity permit
lions head climbing activity permit
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Thermophage
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Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Post by Thermophage »

Your understanding is the same as mine Justin.
No Activity BS needed for both kinds of trad (bouldering and clipping).
But as you well know, what we are told from Paddy (I think it was) and the likes differs from what is actually enforced on the mountain.
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Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Post by justin »

Yes, appears to be a management issue. Problem is when a ranger drags a climber to the sign and says these are the rules.
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GClamp
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Re: TMNP Activity Permits for Climbing

Post by GClamp »

The activity permit (scam) is based on this EMP from 2000 https://www.sanparks.org/docs/general/EMP_climbing.pdf and can be found here https://www.sanparks.org/parks/table_mo ... vities.php

In the EMP it explicitly states:

After discussions held at the Upper cable Station on Table Mountain with South African National Parks representatives in 1997 it was decided that traditional (adventure) climbing and scrambling would not be included in this document because of the limited environmental impacts associated with this type of climbing.

So this EMP doesn't cover traditional climbing and therefore is not part of the scam, er I mean activity permit system.

Print this EMP out with you and give it to the rangers if asked. Maybe they can learn something :thumright
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